"Paging Mr. Jim Longley"...

[stevie_d_64]

Considering the source of the discussion...

http://www.packing.org/community/flying ... tview/5003

I immediately thought of you and what you might think of this...

I'm certainly not going to change the way I do things in regards to flying with a checked firearm in my baggage...

But some may be deterred, because of the hassle that will grow more and more troublesome...

I'm not being harsh, but I am just looking ahead and seeing all sorts of problems with this, that very well will be exploited by the dark side of the force...

[Kalrog]

Reading that now - interresting, and stupid!

[stevie_d_64]

Reading that now - interresting, and stupid!

Sometimes that seems to be the order of the day...

[jimlongley]

Yes, very interesting.

From what little I know of non-co-located screening of firearms:

A) TSA is not supposed to break the lock unless they can secure the bag equally well.

B) There is supposed to be a streamlined procedure for the passenger to stand by with the key or combination.

Having said that, I will admit that opinions vary as to the effectiveness of various locking systems so that A above becomes kind of a "he said, she said" deal, or a "Catch 22" because TSA might break the lock, and then apply a tie wrap to secure the case, and TSA does not accept tie wraps as being secure enough for the original submission. I have demonstrated, many times, that I can open almost any tie wrap made with a pair of tweezers off my keychain, without damagin the tie wrap.

I personally would go with the TSA locks. The TSA locks, by Sentry and a couple of other manufacturers, have special keys that allow TSA to open them. No other agency is authorized to possess TSA lock keys and they are kept under lock and key and signed out only by designated personnel, so the likelyhood that someone else will have one is very slim. Having seen them, and taking great pride in my ability to defeat various locks, I would not even try to tackle a TSA lock.

I am constantly amazed when I see gun cases come through where the owner has used the luggage snap locks to secure his gun, the same luggage snaps that every other owner of a gun case has a key to, along with millions of other people in the world, and which locks are very easy to open with a small screwdriver. Same goes for those cheapo keyed luggage locks from the hardware store, and don't even think about the combination ones, I can open most of them in less than five minutes.

I don't know how to resolve this situation, I don't know if it occurring at DFW or at other airports where screening is conducted away fromt he public eye. We do get similar situations at our airport, where we are "Drop and Go." The ticket agents are supposed to tell people who have checked firearms to standby near our screening area so we can open their cases, and about 75% do, the other quarter seem to either have not heard the agent, or the agent didn't tell them, or they didn't think it was important. I have seen several gun owners called back to find us already inside the case that we called them back to open, usually because their locks were inadequate in the first place.

BTW, I have a small supply of "Operation Child Safe" locks that I keep handy at the airport, and when we get the not unusual "I thought the case had to be unlocked." person, I donate them a lock, along with my card so they can write to TSA and tell them what a good guy I am, and do you think one of the 15 or so has done so? :?

I hate to see people like that poster implying that TSA people are as untrustworthy as he seem to think we are, the bad apples were weeded out long ago, and let me tell thee, if we wanted to rob and steal from people's bags, at this point we have learned enough tricks to do it with little effort.

Heck, I can get into just about any zipper bag that exists, locked or otherwise, with a ballpoint pen, and then close it back up so you would never know it was open. And I hate to see them come through with a gun (in a hard case of course) inside them, because I learned that trick long before I was TSA and let's just say the person I learned it from doesn't belong in one of our homes.

If it was me travelling and I was in one of those airports, I think I would ask the ticket agent to let me stand by, and to notify TSA that I was doing so, at a particular location, such as the baggage office, and insist on positive confirmation that my bag had cleared screening. If they didn't want to do that, I would ask to speak to a TSA supervisor or screening manager, and voice my concern to them.

And remember, for over three years now people have been being warned to get to the airport at least 2 hours early. Even if I work at a "10 minute" airport, where the lines are rarely long enough to last ten minutes and where all the gates are less than a ten minute walk from the security checkpoint, I have little sympathy for those who come charging up and tell me that their flight is about to leave and they don't have time for screening. My usual response is to tell them I sympathize but that if I don't do my job I will lose it, or worse, of they happen to be a terrorist and do something nasty, it will be my fault - there's another plane later or tomorrow.

I started on that compendium of travel tips, and have gotten sidetracked by my surgery and the follow-up, and work schedule, and other things, plus I keep finding more stuff to put in.

[stevie_d_64]

words of wisdom...

[seadawg221]

If I removed the slide from my gun and placed it in one bag, removed the barrell and placed it in another and the frame in yet another bag would I have to declare that I have a firearm?

[KinnyLee]

Good read. I'm going to Vegas in 3 weeks with firearms and I'll follow Mr. Jimlongley's advice. :D

[dws1117]

If I removed the slide from my gun and placed it in one bag, removed the barrell and placed it in another and the frame in yet another bag would I have to declare that I have a firearm?

My guess would be yes since the frame is considered the firearm.

Good read. Thanks Mr. Longley

[stevie_d_64]

Good read. I'm going to Vegas in 3 weeks with firearms and I'll follow Mr. Jimlongley's advice. :D

Just remember...

What goes on in Vegas...Stays in Vegas...

Just make sure yer guns make it back!

[jimlongley]

If I removed the slide from my gun and placed it in one bag, removed the barrell and placed it in another and the frame in yet another bag would I have to declare that I have a firearm?

Yes, TSA follows at least part of BATFE's definition of firearm, which would include certain parts of a disassembled gun, ie the frame or receiver. That said, I have never seen parts treated as a gun, but the policy is in place should they choose to use it.

Funny, I heard someone who should know better explaining to some unknowing screeners that th frame is such and such, and that a receiver is only on machine guns.

Besides, the amount of metal in the slide is likely to trigger a computed x-ray "alert" resulting in a manual search of the bag. Been there, seen that.

They don't follow BATFE in not defining an antique firearm as a firearm, if it's a gun TSA wants it packed according to the rules, no matter how old.

Some of us have fought that fight internally, including a written protest that FEDERAL LAW says that certain guns are not considered firearms, but TSA has stood firm on their own definition and it would probably take a test case in court to fix it, not something too many people are willing to risk.

[KBCraig]

They don't follow BATFE in not defining an antique firearm as a firearm, if it's a gun TSA wants it packed according to the rules, no matter how old.

If you were to check a muzzleloader, how would you demonstrate that it's unloaded?

Kevin

[ElGato]

I don't know much about muzzleloaders and some of you may know another way, I would have to measure the depth of the bore with the ramrod.

Tomcat

[jimlongley]

They don't follow BATFE in not defining an antique firearm as a firearm, if it's a gun TSA wants it packed according to the rules, no matter how old.

If you were to check a muzzleloader, how would you demonstrate that it's unloaded?

Kevin

An interesting and very cogent question. I have seen them come through from time to time, but since we are not out next to the ticket agents I do not know how they were deomonstrated to be unloaded. I have never asked a ticket agent.

Considering how little the average ticket agent knows about guns in general, I would venture to guess that demonstrating an empty chamber by measuring the ramrod against the outside of the gun would be arcane and incomprehensible, and probably acceptable.

When asked by fellow screeners, I have told them that inserting the ramrod and comparing the depth would be the only way I knew, but since we are proscribed from handling guns, we could not do that.