How to "desensitize" a town for Open Carry?

[thetexan]

I agree with all of the above.

i am normally VERY anti "CHL Badge". We've all seen them offered on the internet.

I wonder how well these would be accepted if they were mounted on your OWB Holster.
Now I'm just thinking out loud here so please be constructive.
The first thing someone is going to notice is a holstered firearm.
What if they saw a CHL Badge attached?

What do you think? Good or Bad?
I am asking all of this because in AZ OC is no big deal.
In other states where it's allowed you can still catch heat from LEO's.
My thoughts here (and the goal may not be obtainable) is to make Texans feel comfortable.

The new LTC "Licensed to Carry"might be a "anxiety reliever"

Just thinking.

We all know down deep inside but don't want to admit that the chl badge is intended to or in reality has the effect of making the person who sees it think that there is something official about you and your gun. Any other argument is disingenuous. I'm not, at this point in my response, saying whether that is good or bad, only that that is the dynamic involved.

On the down side this runs the risk of impersonation charges of course. If there is an up side it might be that, for whatever reason, the viewer of the badge may be made to feel less anxiety, as mentioned, and therefore less likely to call 911.

What about an officially sanctioned and issued holster badge or insignia of some sort issued by the state. Something distinguishable from a law enforcement badge but something that is officially sanctioned that easily identifies someone as a licensed chl. Something that attaches to the holster for example. The idea of a badge being a good idea is well established. Look at law enforcement. The badge says "I'm ok, I'm official". A form of a readily recognizable insignia or "badge" that is official will serve this purpose. It would also have the effect of putting the current badges out of business because they would suddenly be useless, and if legislated properly, illegal. It would allow LEOs to readily identify licensed carriers cutting down on unnecessary stops. The key is that it would have to be officially sanctioned and issued. Maybe not even mandatory. But the law would have to say that while not mandatory to have one, any form of badge or insignia is prohibited unless it the the official one issued by the state.

It could be a nicely designed, well made appliance that is made to go on the belt or holster. I don't think I would have a problem with that.

tex

[WinoVeritas]

Come Jan. 1, 2016 if you carry OC you are "wearing" a LTC badge of sorts - it says' I'm licensed in Texas. Just be prepared to prove you are licensed and polite when asked. Any state issued "badge" or "insignia" to be attached to holster / lapel etal can be copied or altered to appear legal - same as I've seen done with state auto inspection stickers modified to appear current.

I haven't carried IWB since the exposure laws changed - have been OWB under untucked shirt.

[Abraham]

thetexan posted: "We all know down deep inside but don't want to admit that the chl badge is intended to or in reality has the effect of making the person who sees it think that there is something official about you and your gun. Any other argument is disingenuous."

Right you are!

Beyond that, I disagree with any badge, officially issued or not.

We CHLers are NOT: Back up law enforcement / Reserve Deputies / In no way do I want to be perceived as any sort of official carrying a gun.

[EEllis]

SNIP

Lets face it CHL's are a minority, a fringe group if you will, and making a big deal about this and putting extra effort into OC makes you a minority of a fringe group.

So, CHLers are a "fringe group"? How many CHLers are there in Texas, about 1 million now? If I divide 1 by 28, which is the state population in millions, that gives me a bit over .035. That means that CHLers are about 3.5 percent of the population. The Supreme Court just changed how marriage is defined for about that percentage of the population. Again, "fringe group"? Maybe in the minds of "Moms Demand Disarmed Citizens" and "Bloomberg Gun Grabbers, Inc.".

What you don't like the word fringe? Because you just proved my point. Less than 4 percent of the population total and even less who beliefs have them carrying every day day, fringe may come with some negative baggage but it's accurate by definition. I was using the term in order to make a point. It won't be mainstream to oc and trying to make it so will cause you took like a nutter. Pretend it's the same as being gay and now you will look like a homophobe as well as a gun nutter. You want to only see it from your point of view that's fine with me. I just think that doing so, while trying to effect the viewpoint of those non gun people in a positive way towards the oc of handguns handguns, is less than helpful. Know your audience. Yelling at people about how normal you are is unlikely to be effective.

[K.Mooneyham]

SNIP

Lets face it CHL's are a minority, a fringe group if you will, and making a big deal about this and putting extra effort into OC makes you a minority of a fringe group.

So, CHLers are a "fringe group"? How many CHLers are there in Texas, about 1 million now? If I divide 1 by 28, which is the state population in millions, that gives me a bit over .035. That means that CHLers are about 3.5 percent of the population. The Supreme Court just changed how marriage is defined for about that percentage of the population. Again, "fringe group"? Maybe in the minds of "Moms Demand Disarmed Citizens" and "Bloomberg Gun Grabbers, Inc.".

What you don't like the word fringe? Because you just proved my point. Less than 4 percent of the population total and even less who beliefs have them carrying every day day, fringe may come with some negative baggage but it's accurate by definition. I was using the term in order to make a point. It won't be mainstream to oc and trying to make it so will cause you took like a nutter. Pretend it's the same as being gay and now you will look like a homophobe as well as a gun nutter. You want to only see it from your point of view that's fine with me. I just think that doing so, while trying to effect the viewpoint of those non gun people in a positive way towards the oc of handguns handguns, is less than helpful. Know your audience. Yelling at people about how normal you are is unlikely to be effective.

Okay, now I've got it. You think that anyone who open carries and isn't police is just like Kory and CJ. Well, glad to know where you stand. FYI, the "shame game" isn't going to work. I've stated more than once that I have no plans to go open carrying in major urban areas because I think its unwise to do so. I've also stated that I still intend to basically cover the firearm in most general situations. YOU called anyone who will open carry fringe and a nutter, and in no instance did I ever, or have I ever, condoned the Kory and CJ mentality of yelling at people about firearms rights. Your implication that I have or will is flat wrong. I could equate you with the "Mom's Demand" group since you seem to be almost as anti as they are. Not saying it would be right to do so, but it would be equivalent.

[dac1842]

Carry concealed and you have no worries.

[EEllis]

SNIP

Lets face it CHL's are a minority, a fringe group if you will, and making a big deal about this and putting extra effort into OC makes you a minority of a fringe group.

So, CHLers are a "fringe group"? How many CHLers are there in Texas, about 1 million now? If I divide 1 by 28, which is the state population in millions, that gives me a bit over .035. That means that CHLers are about 3.5 percent of the population. The Supreme Court just changed how marriage is defined for about that percentage of the population. Again, "fringe group"? Maybe in the minds of "Moms Demand Disarmed Citizens" and "Bloomberg Gun Grabbers, Inc.".

What you don't like the word fringe? Because you just proved my point. Less than 4 percent of the population total and even less who beliefs have them carrying every day day, fringe may come with some negative baggage but it's accurate by definition. I was using the term in order to make a point. It won't be mainstream to oc and trying to make it so will cause you took like a nutter. Pretend it's the same as being gay and now you will look like a homophobe as well as a gun nutter. You want to only see it from your point of view that's fine with me. I just think that doing so, while trying to effect the viewpoint of those non gun people in a positive way towards the oc of handguns handguns, is less than helpful. Know your audience. Yelling at people about how normal you are is unlikely to be effective.

Okay, now I've got it. You think that anyone who open carries and isn't police is just like Kory and CJ. Well, glad to know where you stand. FYI, the "shame game" isn't going to work. I've stated more than once that I have no plans to go open carrying in major urban areas because I think its unwise to do so. I've also stated that I still intend to basically cover the firearm in most general situations. YOU called anyone who will open carry fringe and a nutter, and in no instance did I ever, or have I ever, condoned the Kory and CJ mentality of yelling at people about firearms rights. Your implication that I have or will is flat wrong. I could equate you with the "Mom's Demand" group since you seem to be almost as anti as they are. Not saying it would be right to do so, but it would be equivalent.

No that isn't at all what I'm saying and I must be doing something wrong if that is what you got. I'm saying that the people who are concerned won't be converted to thinking OC is normal because, one it will be done by too small a number of people . And two by trying to normalize it you make yourself even crazier looking to those who find OC so disturbing. Personally I think just treating it as no big deal provides a much stronger message.

[mojo84]

Do attorneys also make up a fringe group since there is about 1/10 the number of state bar members as CHLs?

[canvasbck]

Do attorneys also make up a fringe group since there about 1/10 the number of state bar members as CHLs?

Actually, I do view lawyers as a fringe element, but not because of their small numbers.

No offense intended Charles.

[AggieDad15]

===========================
Half of me feels like this:

Carry concealed and you have no worries.

"Y'all better make it light on yourselves and let me have those seats." - James F. Blake Just stay in the back and everything will be fine.

You know, I'm moving closer to OC every day just to protest the discrimination against gun owners. I'm moving closer to a view that any sign, 3006 or 3007 is reason to boycott. I'm not going to support moving to the back of the bus with regards to my 2A rights any longer. WHY should I be expected to disarm or coverup to walk into a place which is open to sell wares to the general public? That is discrimination is it not? [And by the way, Whataburger has no such policy against OC in any other state.]

Private property rights were used as an excuse for discrimination for years. They can no longer be used to discriminate against racial classes or sexual orientation and they shouldn't hold for gun owners exercising their GOD GIVEN rights either.
Let everyone chew on that for a bit.

The only way to desensitize is to carry.



============================
The other half of me wants to shrink into the background and agree with

Carry concealed and you have no worries.

because several bad things - as pointed out in this thread - can happen when people see you've got a gun.
===========================

Everyone has made good points. Let the debate carry on!!!!!!! I love it!!!

[jmra]

Maybe somewhere in the middle?

[cyphertext]

===========================
Half of me feels like this:

Carry concealed and you have no worries.

"Y'all better make it light on yourselves and let me have those seats." - James F. Blake Just stay in the back and everything will be fine.

You know, I'm moving closer to OC every day just to protest the discrimination against gun owners. I'm moving closer to a view that any sign, 3006 or 3007 is reason to boycott. I'm not going to support moving to the back of the bus with regards to my 2A rights any longer. WHY should I be expected to disarm or coverup to walk into a place which is open to sell wares to the general public? That is discrimination is it not? [And by the way, Whataburger has no such policy against OC in any other state.]

Private property rights were used as an excuse for discrimination for years. They can no longer be used to discriminate against racial classes or sexual orientation and they shouldn't hold for gun owners exercising their GOD GIVEN rights either.
Let everyone chew on that for a bit.

The only way to desensitize is to carry.



============================
The other half of me wants to shrink into the background and agree with

Carry concealed and you have no worries.

because several bad things - as pointed out in this thread - can happen when people see you've got a gun.
===========================

Everyone has made good points. Let the debate carry on!!!!!!! I love it!!!

Requiring you to cover your firearm for service is no more discrimination than requiring you to wear a shirt or shoes in the restaurant. Being a gun owner is not equivalent to race, age, sex, or religion.

[mojo84]

===========================
Half of me feels like this:

Carry concealed and you have no worries.

"Y'all better make it light on yourselves and let me have those seats." - James F. Blake Just stay in the back and everything will be fine.

You know, I'm moving closer to OC every day just to protest the discrimination against gun owners. I'm moving closer to a view that any sign, 3006 or 3007 is reason to boycott. I'm not going to support moving to the back of the bus with regards to my 2A rights any longer. WHY should I be expected to disarm or coverup to walk into a place which is open to sell wares to the general public? That is discrimination is it not? [And by the way, Whataburger has no such policy against OC in any other state.]

Private property rights were used as an excuse for discrimination for years. They can no longer be used to discriminate against racial classes or sexual orientation and they shouldn't hold for gun owners exercising their GOD GIVEN rights either.
Let everyone chew on that for a bit.

The only way to desensitize is to carry.



============================
The other half of me wants to shrink into the background and agree with

Carry concealed and you have no worries.

because several bad things - as pointed out in this thread - can happen when people see you've got a gun.
===========================

Everyone has made good points. Let the debate carry on!!!!!!! I love it!!!

I'm sure glad we aren't talking about our right to pursue happiness by going naked in public places. Why not take a stand for that right? How about personal expression by lewd behavior in public? Why should the government or business owner be able to infringe upon those rights? Are certain rights more sacred than others?

[Taypo]

===========================
Half of me feels like this:

Carry concealed and you have no worries.

"Y'all better make it light on yourselves and let me have those seats." - James F. Blake Just stay in the back and everything will be fine.

You know, I'm moving closer to OC every day just to protest the discrimination against gun owners. I'm moving closer to a view that any sign, 3006 or 3007 is reason to boycott. I'm not going to support moving to the back of the bus with regards to my 2A rights any longer. WHY should I be expected to disarm or coverup to walk into a place which is open to sell wares to the general public? That is discrimination is it not? [And by the way, Whataburger has no such policy against OC in any other state.]

Private property rights were used as an excuse for discrimination for years. They can no longer be used to discriminate against racial classes or sexual orientation and they shouldn't hold for gun owners exercising their GOD GIVEN rights either.
Let everyone chew on that for a bit.

The only way to desensitize is to carry.



============================
The other half of me wants to shrink into the background and agree with

Carry concealed and you have no worries.

because several bad things - as pointed out in this thread - can happen when people see you've got a gun.
===========================

Everyone has made good points. Let the debate carry on!!!!!!! I love it!!!

Requiring you to cover your firearm for service is no more discrimination than requiring you to wear a shirt or shoes in the restaurant. Being a gun owner is not equivalent to race, age, sex, or religion.

[jmra]