gdanaher wrote:......OC eliminates any concerns for printing or inadvertently exposing the pistol. It also sets you up as a potential target while standing in the banking line. In my mind, it is better to carry concealed and let the bad guy wonder which one has it rather than OC and let them know. I'm all about personal protection so I will be sticking with CC, and hoping the OC folks behave well and stay safe.
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I personally have no intentions to OC in public, but I'm not opposed to the people that choose to do so. For me, it's just not having the concern about an accidental exposure.
gdanaher wrote:I've talked to a lot of licensees over the past weeks and the consensus is that few if any would ever open carry and then those that would would do so while mowing the back pasture or working cattle, where OC is more comfortable from that perspective, and perhaps easier to access if a copperhead comes to the party. OC eliminates any concerns for printing or inadvertently exposing the pistol. It also sets you up as a potential target while standing in the banking line. In my mind, it is better to carry concealed and let the bad guy wonder which one has it rather than OC and let them know. I'm all about personal protection so I will be sticking with CC, and hoping the OC folks behave well and stay safe.
Considering you can OC on your own property, they could have done those things in the pasture already. I expect to see more people open carrying at lumber and hardware stores now when in the country.
OK, here's my plan for OCing and potential interactions with LEO:
First off, the only time I plan on OC'ing would be around my town (Alvin, pop approx 25k-30k). And not always then, but sometimes while going out to breakfast, maybe a stop at Home Depot, ect. I may OC when going out to lunch after a PASS, IDPA, or USPSA match because it's just easier that way. I will NOT be one of the ones seeking out a confrontation by parking at a gas station and taking a stroll down a busy street just to generate MWAG calls.
I won't OC in major cities like Houston. I agree with the earlier poster that I would rather be concealed in major metropolitan areas.
If stopped, the following will be my MO:
1. When asked for ID, politely say "sure, just letting you know that my wallet is in my hip pocket right behind the gun, are you OK with me reaching back there?" Then show the ID. If I'm on my way within 3-5 minutes, without further hastle, I will document the encounter when I get back home but take no further action. If these encounters are as rare as I suspect they will be, I will eventually quit documenting.
2. If every trip out with an OC handgun results in one or more of these stops, I will eventually file a complaint with the city or county that is excessively stopping me with dates and times.
3. If I run across an officer who disarms me, unloads the gun, runs the serial number to "make sure it's not stolen", detains me for an excessive amount of time, or other harassing measures, I could be filing a complaint against that officer immediately after the stop. During the stop, I will only ask some questions pertinant to the forthcoming complaint such as the officers name, but will otherwise be compliant and polite. If, at the conclusion of the stop, the officer appologizes for the inconvenience and articulates a reason such as a robbery in the area or some other justification that makes sense (other than a MWAG call), I could even let something like this slide.
I fully expect that item number 1 is the only one that will be happening in my small world. That being said, I'm glad I don't live in Austin.
"All bleeding eventually stops.......quit whining!"
gdanaher wrote:I've talked to a lot of licensees over the past weeks and the consensus is that few if any would ever open carry and then those that would would do so while mowing the back pasture or working cattle, where OC is more comfortable from that perspective, and perhaps easier to access if a copperhead comes to the party. OC eliminates any concerns for printing or inadvertently exposing the pistol. It also sets you up as a potential target while standing in the banking line. In my mind, it is better to carry concealed and let the bad guy wonder which one has it rather than OC and let them know. I'm all about personal protection so I will be sticking with CC, and hoping the OC folks behave well and stay safe.
from a self defense POV I'm thinking OC has tactical advantages. IOWs there's a right time and a wrong time to do so. For example, if I'm traveling and stopping for gas I'd be more apt to open carry at the pump and concealed inside the convenience. store.
Tracker wrote:For example, if I'm traveling and stopping for gas I'd be more apt to open carry at the pump and concealed inside the convenience. store.
^^^^^^ My thoughts exactly. When the guy starts approaching wanting to know if I have any spare change and I say, "Stop right there, that's close enough," he might be more likely to listen when he sees the gun on my hip. Or better yet, pick a different victim to start with.
gdanaher wrote:I've talked to a lot of licensees over the past weeks and the consensus is that few if any would ever open carry and then those that would would do so while mowing the back pasture or working cattle, where OC is more comfortable from that perspective, and perhaps easier to access if a copperhead comes to the party. OC eliminates any concerns for printing or inadvertently exposing the pistol. It also sets you up as a potential target while standing in the banking line. In my mind, it is better to carry concealed and let the bad guy wonder which one has it rather than OC and let them know. I'm all about personal protection so I will be sticking with CC, and hoping the OC folks behave well and stay safe.
Considering you can OC on your own property, they could have done those things in the pasture already. I expect to see more people open carrying at lumber and hardware stores now when in the country.
There's many times when working cattle that you may actually be off your property, if even for a short time. Crossing streets and opening gates are a couple examples as well as bringing back head that have escaped.
How many of you would open carry at a mall? There have been a number of times when I've CC under a light jacket, then got to the mall shopping with my wife about noon or so. By then the weather had heated up and I wanted to take the jacket off and leave it in the car.
Ruark wrote:How many of you would open carry at a mall? There have been a number of times when I've CC under a light jacket, then got to the mall shopping with my wife about noon or so. By then the weather had heated up and I wanted to take the jacket off and leave it in the car.
I would never consider OC at a mall. If it got warmer I'd take off the jacket and pull my shirt over my firearm. OC in a mall is almost a guarantee call to 911 of MWAG.
Life is tough, but it's tougher when you're stupid.
John Wayne
NRA Lifetime member
Ruark wrote:How many of you would open carry at a mall? There have been a number of times when I've CC under a light jacket, then got to the mall shopping with my wife about noon or so. By then the weather had heated up and I wanted to take the jacket off and leave it in the car.
I would never consider OC at a mall. If it got warmer I'd take off the jacket and pull my shirt over my firearm. OC in a mall is almost a guarantee call to 911 of MWAG.
+1
My position has softened...there may be places and times where I might OC, but a shopping mall would not likely fall within that category.
Your best option for personal security is a lifelong commitment to avoidance, deterrence, and de-escalation.
When those fail, aim for center mass.
Ruark wrote:How many of you would open carry at a mall? There have been a number of times when I've CC under a light jacket, then got to the mall shopping with my wife about noon or so. By then the weather had heated up and I wanted to take the jacket off and leave it in the car.
I would never consider OC at a mall. If it got warmer I'd take off the jacket and pull my shirt over my firearm. OC in a mall is almost a guarantee call to 911 of MWAG.
So? You're completely legal. All a cop can do is ask to see your CHL. Besides, I'm dressed neatly (slacks, short sleeve button down dress shirt) and my shirt is tucked in; I don't want to pull it out just for that reason, especially when I'm not doing anything wrong.
I think for OC to really work, we need to not be intimidated. MDA would have a good belly laugh at how we're "so scared of them."
canvasbck wrote:1. When asked for ID, politely say "sure, just letting you know that my wallet is in my hip pocket right behind the gun, are you OK with me reaching back there?".........
This is a good piece of advice and something to have in mind in advance. I've seen comments like this and used similar language during a traffic stop but it will be a little different if you are open carrying where the firearm is visible, right were you will be moving your hand.
Ruark wrote:How many of you would open carry at a mall? There have been a number of times when I've CC under a light jacket, then got to the mall shopping with my wife about noon or so. By then the weather had heated up and I wanted to take the jacket off and leave it in the car.
I would never consider OC at a mall. If it got warmer I'd take off the jacket and pull my shirt over my firearm. OC in a mall is almost a guarantee call to 911 of MWAG.
So? You're completely legal. All a cop can do is ask to see your CHL. Besides, I'm dressed neatly (slacks, short sleeve button down dress shirt) and my shirt is tucked in; I don't want to pull it out just for that reason, especially when I'm not doing anything wrong.
I think for OC to really work, we need to not be intimidated. MDA would have a good belly laugh at how we're "so scared of them."
I do agree that RESPONSIBLE, well dressed people need to take the place of those who have been the face of the OC movement up until now. If you want it accepted by the mainstream, the behavior has to appear mainstream. My biggest reluctance to OC in a mall is that there are too many people all around you. Anywhere that there is a high incidence of pick pockets is a bad place to OC. IMO.
Also, I don't go to the mall, like ever. So pretty much no chance of me OCing there.
"All bleeding eventually stops.......quit whining!"
Ruark wrote:How many of you would open carry at a mall? There have been a number of times when I've CC under a light jacket, then got to the mall shopping with my wife about noon or so. By then the weather had heated up and I wanted to take the jacket off and leave it in the car.
I would never consider OC at a mall. If it got warmer I'd take off the jacket and pull my shirt over my firearm. OC in a mall is almost a guarantee call to 911 of MWAG.
So? You're completely legal. All a cop can do is ask to see your CHL. Besides, I'm dressed neatly (slacks, short sleeve button down dress shirt) and my shirt is tucked in; I don't want to pull it out just for that reason, especially when I'm not doing anything wrong.
I think for OC to really work, we need to not be intimidated. MDA would have a good belly laugh at how we're "so scared of them."
My decision to conceal has nothing to do with avoiding LEO contact.
In case anyone was under the impression that reporting APD harassment will do any good:
reddit poster wrote:Austin police have what can only be called an official stated policy of demanding ID, under penalty of arrest, from subjects who are detained but not under arrest when ID is requested. Yes, TX Penal Code 38.02 does not allow that (though there are certain narrow ID-on-detention situations like on the UT campus or while concealed carrying a handgun). Yes, APD has been made very directly and explicitly aware of this. Yes, the office of the Police Monitor is aware of this. Yes, staff of the City Council were briefed on this. Yes, there have been Texas Public Information Act requests filed and answered, and -- yes -- they show APD staffers being explicitly aware of the current law as they lobby the state legislature to loosen it. No, nothing has changed.
...
There are thousands of Failure to Identify arrests in this city just in a period of a few years that I started to analyze last year. I've pulled from APD, the County Court, and some from the Municipal Court, but there have always been missing elements involved in nailing down a pattern on things like race, age, and geography, and part of the difficulty has in truth been down to stonewalling. The behavior of public information officers in particular has been very disheartening.
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