Debate/Town Hall Meeting with Cotton & Grisham?

[sugar land dave]

In regards to Grisham's statement about Charles Cotton "fighting OCT since day 1" I would like to point out that Grisham/OCT takes the position that if you do not agree with them and try to convince them to try your course of action that you are fighting them. I personally arranged for Grisham, Alice Tripp, and Charles Cotton to all have a discussion on the record regarding OC efforts last year. Charles and Alice were willing to work with them is Grisham/OCT cleaned up their act. Needless to say OCT instead went on to do Bloomberg and Dudley Brown's bidding by attacking the NRA and TSRA while crying "No Compromise". Grisham/OCT and others actively tried to scuttle HB910 and SB17 in an effort to promote unlicensed carry, when it became obvious that unlicensed carry was dead they jumped on board to support the Licensed OC bill and claimed it was their own.

That seems like an interesting summary consistent with behaviors I have observed.

[baseballguy2001]

In regards to Grisham's statement about Charles Cotton "fighting OCT since day 1" I would like to point out that Grisham/OCT takes the position that if you do not agree with them and try to convince them to try your course of action that you are fighting them. I personally arranged for Grisham, Alice Tripp, and Charles Cotton to all have a discussion on the record regarding OC efforts last year. Charles and Alice were willing to work with them is Grisham/OCT cleaned up their act. Needless to say OCT instead went on to do Bloomberg and Dudley Brown's bidding by attacking the NRA and TSRA while crying "No Compromise". Grisham/OCT and others actively tried to scuttle HB910 and SB17 in an effort to promote unlicensed carry, when it became obvious that unlicensed carry was dead they jumped on board to support the Licensed OC bill and claimed it was their own.

Just to be perfectly clear -- are you saying you tried to invite all three views last year to a similar setting and the OCT guys refused?


I apologize if this is asked/answered -- I don't have a FB or twitter acct, has anyone invited CJ or the MDA types for the current offer of a town hall? If so, what was their reply?

[jerry_r60]

Just to cover all the bases, I would offer him a counter proposal -- Offer to invite CJ and whoever the anti 2A flavor of the moment is. My guess is neither would accept. CJ can't get a CHL, and the anti folks don't want anyone to have CHL's, much less licensed open carry.

Also -- the town hall would have to be run/organized completely independent of Mr. Cotton. (or any panel member actually)

Who ever asked the questions would have total control. There would be no interrupting other panel members during their answers. Rebuttals would be allowed, but only at the discretion of the moderator/questioner.

No outbursts would allowed by audience members, and anyone who did, would be immediately escorted out.

An equal number of questions would be asked of each panel member, but answers would be time limited, at the discretion of the moderator/questioner. Filibustering will not be tolerated. Non-answer answers will not be allowed. Non-sequiturs will not be allowed. "I'd like to go back to.." answers will not be allowed, and that turn at an answer will be forfeited.

Just my .02

Edit: First three questions --

Mr. Grisham -- Have you applied for a Texas CHL? and if not, why not? If you did, was it denied?

To the anti CHL type -- Why shouldn't citizens be able to protect themselves from criminals/home invaders/car jackers?

Mr. Cotton -- What do law abiding citizens gain by allowing students on college campuses to carry concealed firearms?

That just dilutes the debate. As Chales mentioned, he has debated anti gun groups many times. The chasm between anti gun groups and pro 2a groups is pretty clear. It's the exposure of tactics and beliefs between Charles and his approvs vs CJ that is important to shine light on. Having a third ani-gun point of view just takes focus away from that spotlight. It also likely would provide some cover for CJ.

[mojo84]

Not speaking for Charles but in my mind, his point has already been made via CJ's response.

[martytcp]

Not speaking for Charles but in my mind, his point has already been made via CJ's response.

True, that is.

[sugar land dave]

I would think Cj would want to do the discussion with Charles. He could possibly get his views on TV news coverage without cost to himself other than his time. I'd pay the $27 to hear their views.

[Charles L. Cotton]

As I said in my original post, I never thought Grisham would have the courage to put his views and tactics before Texas gun owners in an open forum. That said, he continuously condemns the NRA, TSRA and me claiming that our methods are outdated and ineffective, and that he and OCT are the way to do things in the future. If he truly believed that, then one would expect him to be willing to participate in a debate/town hall meeting so people would ask questions of both of us and get unfiltered answers. His refusal to participate speaks columns. He knows that gun owners are going to ask him questions that he either cannot or will not answer. His lies about the NRA, TSRA himself and OCT will be exposed to a much broader audience and he cannot risk that.

I'm sure some wonder why I'm doing this and the answer is simple; Texas gun owners need to look past the passionate rhetoric, the fire and brimstone speeches, to see OCT did not pass anything this session. Everything they promoted died and they had nothing to do with HB910, campus-carry (if it passes), SB273, or any other pro-gun bills. OCT testified on various gun bills for two reasons, 1) to get their name in the public's eye; and 2) to falsely claim they passed pro-gun bills. All this in spite of their cries not to pass licensed open-carry! He even tried to gut anti-gun deals with anti-gun Rep. Pancho Nevarez. Fortunately for Texas gun owners, he has absolutely no political power to cut deals with anyone. Texas gun owners must not be deceived into believing the OCT in-your-face, throw-them-all-out, tactics are effective at passing legislation and blocking anti-gun bills.

I wish I had a close up video of Grisham sitting in the House gallery when the concurrence vote on HB910 went down in flames. He was visibly shocked; he had no clue of the groundswell against the Huffines Amendment. So much for being on top of things; so much for being "connected."

Chas.

[mojo84]

Charles,
One of the claims I continue to see CJ and his followers make is that open carry wasn't on any rep's or senator's radar until OCT started doing their demonstrations and promotion of the issue. I think it would be good for you and/or the Alice to address this claim.

Thanks,

Mojo84

[Charles L. Cotton]

Charles,
One of the claims I continue to see CJ and his followers make is that open carry wasn't on any rep's or senator's radar until OCT started doing their demonstrations and promotion of the issue. I think it would be good for you and/or the Alice to address this claim.

Thanks,
Mojo84

Yeah, I've seen that claim multiple times. Open-carry was on the political radar long before Grisham started OCT on July 9, 2013. The radar blip was overwhelmingly negative in Austin because of the tactics of LSCDL and others, but the terrible image was limited to legislators. The NRA and TSRA started working on open-carry toward the end of the 2013 Texas Legislative Session, before OCT was even created. When OCT came onto the scene, the negative view of open-carry was spread beyond the legislature and into the public eye. This is yet another false claim by Grisham.

Grisham thinks the because he and his groups got air time on TV and radio, that means they had a positive impact on the open-carry issue. Nothing could be further from the truth. Look at the House Member and Senator OCT claim to be their champions -- how did they perform for you CJ?

BTW, Grisham has not been banned here on the Forum; he could respond, but he chooses not to do so. Contrast this to his deleting posts from the OCT Facebook page when they challenge his throne.

Here is a link to an article I wrote setting out the history of the open-carry movement in Texas: https://www.texasfirearmscoalition.com/ ... s-in-texas" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Chas.

[G.A. Heath]

In regards to Grisham's statement about Charles Cotton "fighting OCT since day 1" I would like to point out that Grisham/OCT takes the position that if you do not agree with them and try to convince them to try your course of action that you are fighting them. I personally arranged for Grisham, Alice Tripp, and Charles Cotton to all have a discussion on the record regarding OC efforts last year. Charles and Alice were willing to work with them is Grisham/OCT cleaned up their act. Needless to say OCT instead went on to do Bloomberg and Dudley Brown's bidding by attacking the NRA and TSRA while crying "No Compromise". Grisham/OCT and others actively tried to scuttle HB910 and SB17 in an effort to promote unlicensed carry, when it became obvious that unlicensed carry was dead they jumped on board to support the Licensed OC bill and claimed it was their own.

Just to be perfectly clear -- are you saying you tried to invite all three views last year to a similar setting and the OCT guys refused?


I apologize if this is asked/answered -- I don't have a FB or twitter acct, has anyone invited CJ or the MDA types for the current offer of a town hall? If so, what was their reply?

They participated and it was a vaery revealing discussion, not a debate. I will pm you a link to the audio.

[mojo84]

Thanks Charles. I had forgotten about that article or I would have posted.

You are spot on about CJ deleting posts and banning people that offer critical or dissenting views. Talk about operating like a fascist regime while attacking others for being fascist and statist like.

[nightmare69]

Slightly off topic but I remember in the police academy we had the local DA come out to talk to us about testifying in court. She said to NEVER get into a argument/debate with a attorney while on the stand because they are smarter then you and you will lose. I wonder is CJ knows this also.

[74novaman]

I'd be interested in attending this, with the hope it would lead to gun owners being able to unite and move forward before the next session trying to influence the public and legislature in a manner that will produce positive results in improving gun laws here in Texas, instead of the negative results we saw last year.

[cyphertext]

From CJ Grisham Facebook page...

"NRA board member Charles Cotton doesn't want to debate Moms Demand Action, Coalition To Stop Gun Violence, Gabby Giffords, Michael Bloomberg, Everytown for Gun Safety, Mayors Against Illegal Guns, Art Acevedo, Poncho Nevarez, or anyone else in the gun control astroturf crowd trying to strip our rights from us. He wants to debate ME. Speaks volumes about what has happened to that once great organization and a perfect example of why I'm so disillusioned with them.
Such a debate would only serve to inflate the ego of whomever would "win" and do NOTHING to further gun rights in Texas."

[jmra]

From CJ Grisham Facebook page...

"NRA board member Charles Cotton doesn't want to debate Moms Demand Action, Coalition To Stop Gun Violence, Gabby Giffords, Michael Bloomberg, Everytown for Gun Safety, Mayors Against Illegal Guns, Art Acevedo, Poncho Nevarez, or anyone else in the gun control astroturf crowd trying to strip our rights from us. He wants to debate ME. Speaks volumes about what has happened to that once great organization and a perfect example of why I'm so disillusioned with them.
Such a debate would only serve to inflate the ego of whomever would "win" and do NOTHING to further gun rights in Texas."

Which means CJ knows he would embarrass himself so he's running away with his tail tucked between his legs.