Ever vigilant - at the range

[mloamiller]

Took the family to the gun range on Memorial Day and enjoyed watching my daughters shoot about as well as I did. I noticed that the guys in the two stalls next to us had probably never held a gun before, much less fired one. They seemed to have a guy alternating between the two stalls, teaching them the basics. At one point, I had stepped back from my stall, watching my daughter shoot, and noticed that their "teacher" was in the second stall over. While he was at the other stall, a guy in the stall immediately next to us stepped away from the firing line with a pistol in his hand, looking at it. It was more or less pointed at the backs of his friends who were still at the firing line, although his finger wasn't on trigger at the time.

I stepped up to him, placing my hands palms-out next to the gun and said "Excuse me sir, you need to keep the guns at the firing line, pointed at the target at all times." He replied "Oh, I'm just holding it so my friend can take a picture." At the same time, he started to point behind him to his friend holding a camera - using the same hand that was currently holding the gun and turning between us. Since my hands were already right next to the gun, palms-out (I sort of expected this), he basically moved it right into my hands. I said "Whoa!" rather loudly, immediately took the gun from his hands, and placed it back on the firing line next to his buddy (who just finished shooting another gun). I then told the gun range observer (who had also stepped away briefly) what had just happened and to keep on eye on them.

Situational awareness applies everywhere and anywhere guns are involved, even (especially?) at the gun range.

[AlaskanInTexas]

Not sure I would have handled it that way. Putting your hand on another person's gun without their permission while they are holding it is a recipe for disaster. I would have taken the kids away from the firing line and got a range officer to handle it.

[The Marshal]

Yes sir, always watching at the Gun Range for the 'inexperienced.'
Anytime I phones/cameras come out, I am especially vigilant!

[Taypo]

Which range was this?

[mloamiller]

Not sure I would have handled it that way. Putting your hand on another person's gun without their permission while they are holding it is a recipe for disaster. I would have taken the kids away from the firing line and got a range officer to handle it.

That would have required me to walk away from a guy holding a gun, not sure what he was doing with it and not knowing if it was loaded. I didn't touch it until he was starting to literally "wave it around"; at that point, I felt immediate action was needed.

[mloamiller]

Which range was this?

Shoot Smart in Grand Prairie

[Abraham]

mloamiller,

Any idea about the range officer follow up with the oblivious gun novice?

[mloamiller]

Any idea about the range officer follow up with the oblivious gun novice?

I didn't see her interact with them after that, but I don't think she left the shooting area again.

[Jumping Frog]

Not sure I would have handled it that way. Putting your hand on another person's gun without their permission while they are holding it is a recipe for disaster. I would have taken the kids away from the firing line and got a range officer to handle it.

That would have required me to walk away from a guy holding a gun, not sure what he was doing with it and not knowing if it was loaded. I didn't touch it until he was starting to literally "wave it around"; at that point, I felt immediate action was needed.

I agree with you. If an immediate danger is present it requires all of us to be responsible enough to take immediate action.

[AlaskanInTexas]

Not sure I would have handled it that way. Putting your hand on another person's gun without their permission while they are holding it is a recipe for disaster. I would have taken the kids away from the firing line and got a range officer to handle it.

That would have required me to walk away from a guy holding a gun, not sure what he was doing with it and not knowing if it was loaded. I didn't touch it until he was starting to literally "wave it around"; at that point, I felt immediate action was needed.

I agree with you. If an immediate danger is present it requires all of us to be responsible enough to take immediate action.

I still agree with myself (which happens a lot). The original poster was not in immediate danger. A guy was showing poor muzzle control, but the muzzle was in the opposite direction and his finger was not on the trigger. I wasn't there, but it seems to me that he could have safely told his girls "Let's take a break" and gone for a range officer. Grabbing the gun presented enormous risks. First, two hands on one gun (especially when one hand is obviously untrained) is just asking for an accidental/negligent discharge. Too easy for someone's fingers to get tripped up in the trigger guard. Second, ask yourself how you might react if a complete stranger grabbed your gun and you weren't aware that you were doing anything wrong. I might be crazy (not the first time I've been accused), but I think the poster's actions took a dangerous situation and made it even more dangerous. Kudos though to the poster for recognizing the initial danger - I don't think many people spend much time scanning the other strangers for miscues that could bring harm. I just would have handled it differently (or if I were there in the situation, seeing what he saw, I might very well do the same thing - just arm-chair quarterbacking here).

[Middle Age Russ]

I agree with the OP that immediate danger was present in the form of a handgun in an unknown condition being present in someone's hands behind the firing line. This was amplified by the user showing poor muzzle discipline. The immediate danger could have been to the OP, the OP's family, other shooters on the line, or anyone in the near vicinity. The person with the handgun clearly could have pointed it in any direction and seemingly did not know or care about keeping the muzzle pointed in a safe direction. As such, I feel that the OP's actions were appropriate to the situation, and are no different than what any responsible person should do. Relieving someone of their gun, or exerting control of it beyond their control, is indeed risky. It is more risky to ignore or attempt slow resolution of a condition that could be immediately life-threatening to someone.

[The Annoyed Man]

I have had very similar situations happen to me in the past. I've never laid hands on the other person's gun, but I have visibly backed away, palms out, said something more or less innocuous like "woopsie!", and politely suggested that person keep the muzzle downrange and not back away from the firing line until after putting the gun down. Most of the time, I've found that people, especially novices, appreciate it when a more experienced shooter helps them to correct a safety deficiency, if the experienced shooter accepts apologies gracefully, tries not to humiliate the other person, and is patient with explaining the rules and the possible safety consequences for violating them, intentionally or not. A lot of the time, new shooters are brought to a range by someone who is, themselves, relatively inexperienced, and nobody has ever given them any real guidance. Only one person has ever reacted negatively to me in that regard. Him, I told "I don't give a [bleep] what your reason is. I don't want to get shot, and my desire to not get shot trumps your need to be irresponsible with a gun. Now put the [bleep]ing thing down, muzzle down range, or I'll ask the RO to toss your [bleep] out of here." He didn't like it, but he got the message, and he departed soon afterward anyway. I wouldn't normally respond with that much heat, but his original response to the original request richly deserved it.

[mloamiller]

Grabbing the gun presented enormous risks. First, two hands on one gun (especially when one hand is obviously untrained) is just asking for an accidental/negligent discharge. Too easy for someone's fingers to get tripped up in the trigger guard. Second, ask yourself how you might react if a complete stranger grabbed your gun and you weren't aware that you were doing anything wrong.

My initial response was to simply tell the other guy he needed to return the gun to the firing line. I did not touch the gun until he started to wave it in my direction. At that point, because I had positioned my hands to prevent just such an occurrence, he moved it right into my open hands. I simply closed my hands around it to keep him from pointing it at me. I then restated (a little stronger this time) that he needed to return it to the firing line and his friend could take the picture there. He then simply let it go and said "OK".

If his finger had been inside the trigger guard, or if he had started to struggle and/or taken a belligerent tone, I may have acted differently. Luckily, and possibly in part because I was very respectful in my approach, it didn't come to that.

[Jim Beaux]

OP if I envision your post correctly, you handled the situation as best you could. The guy was sweeping others and about to sweep you. If he didnt know not to point at others, there is no assurance he knew not to put his finger on the trigger. In a situation like this time is critical.

Secure the gun then worry about everything else.

[txcharvel]

I grew up in the country around guns and always thought I knew all about safety. What I really knew was how to shoot the guns I owned. Being a suburbanite now, I have to do most of my shooting at a range. The very first time I ever visited an indoor range, I was taking pistols from my bag and laying them on the bench. One of my pistols was facing backwards from the bench. The range officer politely reminded me that the muzzle needs to go downrange AT ALL TIMES. My reply was "it's not loaded..." to which I immediately added "...but it doesn't matter" I apologized and was thankful he didn't kick me out.

Ever since I've been extremely mindful of myself and others while at the range. I've also noticed the nervousness of some range officers when they realize that someone brought a bunch of friends along to "show 'em all how to shoot". When I bring friends to shoot I always give them a briefing on what to do and how to act at the range. At first they think I'm crazy with all the rules, but they quickly get it. It's also a good reminder for me.