OCT Pro-Gun or Pro-Gun Control?

[sugar land dave]

OCT is causing more problems for Texas gun owners that have yet come to light . . . More info after the session is over.

Chas.

Thanks for the input, Charles. I've been saying for awhile that many Open Carry proponents, with their actions, have been throwing CHL under the bus every chance they get. It is amazing the amount of hubris they exude as if they don't need any support from the concealed carry licensees. I am glad everyone here has tempered open arms (no pun intended) with the wary eye of caution.

[G.A. Heath]

I got an email about this thread from a podcast listener, he informed me that this thread was posted in OCT's closed group with the statement that Charles and the NRA are attacking CJ and OCT again. Now that has been said:

Let me make something 100% clear, I do not speak for Charles, the NRA, the TSRA, or anyone besides myself and my podcast. I am the one who posted the screen grab, I am the one who wrote the title of this thread, and I am the one who has no love for OCT for a number of reasons. This is because of personal attacks in their name, Their leadership claiming I am "supposedly pro-gun" with the implication I am anti-gun, I have been threatened in their name, I have had people try and make bogus copyright claims in their name. If OCT and CJ Grisham can grow up and learn to read a little better they would realize that I am the one who started this thread. Charles simply said that OCT and Grisham have done more harm than has come to light and he will discuss it after the session closes. That is not an attack on the group or it's leader, and it definitely did not come the NRA. Charles was man enough to make his statement in public, CJ made his in a closed group where only his echo chamber of supporters would see it.

Note the mods/admin: If this went to far feel free to deal with it as you see fit.

[epwrangler]

I am an NRA member and I support Constitutional Carry. That said, I do not support those who do stupid things and
Say dumb things because of their supposedly support of it. I think it is the right thing because I can see some who doing not support open carry or concealed targeting and CHL holders who open carry. In addition, I do not think my right to own and carry should need to be licensed .

Criminals will do as they chose and have disregarded the laws anyway. These laws only really restrict the rights of the good guys.

[epwrangler]

Regrettably true. I just hate for rinos to lead. I am very tired of being lied to.

[G.A. Heath]

Regrettably true. I just hate for rinos to lead. I am very tired of being lied to.

Constitutional Carry is the end goal, shooting for the fences is fine as long as you don't hurt yourself in the process. OCT has repeatedly stated that they are opposed to licensed carry, yet they claim to support licensed carry bills. The idea that I am anti-gun, anti-open carry, or anti-constitutional carry is untrue and is intentionally stated because when I make a statement I can back it up which some folks take offence at because they can not or choose not to do the same.

If you followed the link in the OCT closed group post to this keep in mind that I am open in posting my position and and opinions, I do not hide them and I do not edit them or delete them when they become a burden. I could go on the offensive against statements OCT and CJ Grisham have made and prove them incorrect or show that they have a conflict between the statements. I have however said that I would not do so until after the legislature is out of session, and I am a man of my word. With that said I will address CJ Grisham and OCT's statements and such on my podcast, but not until the session ends.

[Brantoc]

Stupidity like this is why I haven't re-uped with the NRA. Claiming OCT is pro gun control because they are fine with a more basic sign?? what the heck?

Speaking as a CHL holder, if a business has a sign that is not proper 30.06, I STILL DO NOT VISIT THAT BUSINESS.
I view any victim rich zone sign as a notice they do not want my money. Period.
AMC Firewheel in Garland is a prime example. They have 30.06 printed correct size on (1) total door of the 12+ and it is all the way on the ground.
I might have visited it a few times before I even saw it because it is basically invisible unless you happen to look down going in THAT ONE DOOR.

Do I visit AMC Firewheel armed or disarmed? How about not at all any more. I don't care the sign is not to code. They are stating they do not want my money. I won't give it to them.
NOTE - Friend says it is on 2 total doors now.. of the more than 12.

[G.A. Heath]

Stupidity like this is why I haven't re-uped with the NRA. Claiming OCT is pro gun control because they are fine with a more basic sign?? what the heck?

Speaking as a CHL holder, if a business has a sign that is not proper 30.06, I STILL DO NOT VISIT THAT BUSINESS.
I view any victim rich zone sign as a notice they do not want my money. Period.
AMC Firewheel in Garland is a prime example. They have 30.06 printed correct size on (1) total door of the 12+ and it is all the way on the ground.
I might have visited it a few times before I even saw it because it is basically invisible unless you happen to look down going in THAT ONE DOOR.

Do I visit AMC Firewheel armed or disarmed? How about not at all any more. I don't care the sign is not to code. They are stating they do not want my money. I won't give it to them.
NOTE - Friend says it is on 2 total doors now.. of the more than 12.

I am the one who posted this originally. I speak for myself and my podcast, I do not speak for the NRA or anyone else. I do not do business anywhere that makes an effort to post a 30.06, valid or not, if I have a choice in the matter. But I do not accept CJ Grisham, OCT, and others wanting to make it easier to post signage to keep me out. A business has to comply with a number of regulations, and to claim support for property rights (something that is not in the constitution) in an effort to restrict my second amendment rights (which is in the constitution) is unacceptable. To claim I am anti-gun, or anti-open carry, or anti-constitutional carry because I do not drink your kool-aid is more of the same from OCT.

[TexasCajun]

Stupidity like this is why I haven't re-uped with the NRA. Claiming OCT is pro gun control because they are fine with a more basic sign?? what the heck?

Speaking as a CHL holder, if a business has a sign that is not proper 30.06, I STILL DO NOT VISIT THAT BUSINESS.
I view any victim rich zone sign as a notice they do not want my money. Period.
AMC Firewheel in Garland is a prime example. They have 30.06 printed correct size on (1) total door of the 12+ and it is all the way on the ground.
I might have visited it a few times before I even saw it because it is basically invisible unless you happen to look down going in THAT ONE DOOR.

Do I visit AMC Firewheel armed or disarmed? How about not at all any more. I don't care the sign is not to code. They are stating they do not want my money. I won't give it to them.
NOTE - Friend says it is on 2 total doors now.. of the more than 12.

Kind of jumping the gun, aren't you? You guys are supposed to wait until after the legislative session has concluded before claiming that the NRA and/or TSRA has sold out Texas gun owners. I'd suggest thinking about baseball for a while.

[Charles L. Cotton]

Stupidity like this is why I haven't re-uped with the NRA. Claiming OCT is pro gun control because they are fine with a more basic sign?? what the heck?

Show us where the NRA made this statement, or apologize and retract your statement.

Chas.

[Brantoc]

The NRA has a great record for hunting rights.. but for open carry the record is (read Forum rules) poor.. Scratch that, doesn't rate that high.
My first 'out of favor' was a couple years ago, I had sent $500 to the NRA during the gun crazy (after the school).. I got invited to a NRA dinner thing in Dallas. Sounded neat, went, and talked with many like minded members.. Talked briefly with one of the head honcho's about open carry, and he flat our said the NRA doesn't care about that.
I was like.. But the second amendment.. and he just blew it off as a non-issue..

TSRA hasn't been much better, and for that matter neither has anyone else. Other than a handful of people in the whole state each term no one has said boo about open carry. You talk with them and they all agree, but no one says anything. This is the only time it has been different. I'm not a member of OCT, never been to a rally (don't really like the idea of carrying a rifle down main street) but they get results. OCT is the ONLY reason we are this far. I do support 2AF, but between the NRA and OCT I'd lean OCT.

As for you not speaking for the NRA or TSRA, your like one of the big dogs in both, right? Isn't that like saying Susan Rice doesn't speak for the White House?

[Brantoc]

Charles here is the video retraction from Chris Cox. After the alert went out calling open carry 'weird'..

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[Charles L. Cotton]

The NRA has a great record for hunting rights.. but for open carry the record is (read Forum rules) poor.. Scratch that, doesn't rate that high.
My first 'out of favor' was a couple years ago, I had sent $500 to the NRA during the gun crazy (after the school).. I got invited to a NRA dinner thing in Dallas. Sounded neat, went, and talked with many like minded members.. Talked briefly with one of the head honcho's about open carry, and he flat our said the NRA doesn't care about that.
I was like.. But the second amendment.. and he just blew it off as a non-issue..

You clearly don't know anything about the NRA's efforts to pass open-carry in other states. No one at a Friends dinner is going to talk about politics or legislation because it would endanger the NRA Foundation's tax exempt status. That's why they would not talk to you about open-carry.

TSRA hasn't been much better, and for that matter neither has anyone else. Other than a handful of people in the whole state each term no one has said boo about open carry. You talk with them and they all agree, but no one says anything. This is the only time it has been different. I'm not a member of OCT, never been to a rally (don't really like the idea of carrying a rifle down main street) but they get results. OCT is the ONLY reason we are this far. I do support 2AF, but between the NRA and OCT I'd lean OCT.

You need to read The History of Open-Carry Efforts in Texas if you are interested in the truth. If you only want to bash the NRA and TSRA, then don't both reading it.

As for you not speaking for the NRA or TSRA, your like one of the big dogs in both, right? Isn't that like saying Susan Rice doesn't speak for the White House?

Two responses: First, show me where I said OCT was anti-gun. Secondly, the fact that I'm on the NRA Board of Directors doesn't mean that every word that come from my mouth is the NRA's position. In fact, that's one reason I created the Texas Firearms Coalition.

Again, even if your contention was correct that everything I say is on behalf of the NRA, show me where I said OCT is anti-gun, or apologize and retract your statement.

Chas.

[Charles L. Cotton]

Charles here is the video retraction from Chris Cox. After the alert went out calling open carry 'weird'..

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I saw it before it went out and again later. I just watched it again. Please point out where Chris said OCT was anti-gun. Quite trying to avoid your own words. Back up your attacks or apologize.

BTW, why did you register under a different username? You're not going to have two different Forum registrations so after you respond to these questions, I'll lock this registration and you can use your other account.

Chas.

[amtank]

I don't have a problem with Charles I never have had one. While the analysis of the posted article is generally correct I find factual issue with The notion that the TSRA has done even the majority of the leg work on this issue. Yes, I am well aware that between Charles and Alice they have personal long standing relationships with the majority of the long standing legislators.

That being said I am a TSRA member and was previously a NRA member. Up until late last year it seemed that the TSRA, how was it put, open carry is not a priority. Campus carry was always the goal of this session and as one of the original campus coordinators for Students for Concealed Carry on Campus it is something I care deeply about especially due to the fact my mother is a professor.

I find it a bitter pill receiving an email this afternoon with a news flash that Texas house passed NRA backed open carry. What does that mean? As I said Charles you do a great job and I respect your honesty and commitment. It however seems the larger organization attempts to hitch itself to any winning horse and throws losing ones under the bus.

My former representative went out there last week and kept every promise he made fighting to get Constitutional Carry at least voted on so we as Texans know where our representatives stand. He was thwarted by the house leadership through actions so egregious that at one point a extremely liberal democrat came to his defense Friday.

It is my viewpoint that the grassroots activists and small organizations are doing more to advance gun rights and overall freedom in this state than either the TSRA or NRA and its a damn shame that I could even feel that way even if my outlook is slightly flawed. At the Republican State Convention I did not see any professional lobbyists, for gun rights, during the week when platform was really being fought over and decided. It was literally the individuals who make up Texas Firearms Freedom, Texas Carry, OCT, and even yes the hated OCTC as delegates fighting for language to extend our rights. We made changes not only to platform but also extensive changes to the makeup of the SREC. While you can clearly still argue quite legitimately that the legislator pays no attention to the party or platform. I assure you this will change in the next four years.

The people that have been pushing political change inside of the Republican party are winning and the Republican lawmakers that all the organizations have to fight with to do what is right will not be in office much longer. I know things along those lines of have been stated before but I assure you it will be true.

The mere fact my representation was not even present in the capitol on Friday during the important vote speaks volumes on his commitment to the cause.

Disclaimer: I am a former active member of OCTC. I was at the time of the 2014 state convention. I am a current regional co-coordinator for OCT. I hold a Texas CHL. I am a member of the TSRA If you missed that above. I am even a member of the Texas State Militia. I am a Constitutional Conservative who is involved in multiple causes beyond guns. I also have four legislators personal cell numbers in my phone and another three chiefs of staff. I have been known from time to time go for a walk with a rifle or shotgun.

[amtank]

Oh I forgot this.

"After having established a 20-year record of law-abiding and responsible behavior, Texas CHLs have earned this personal protection option that 43 states currently allow."

Really? We have earned our permitted, purchased, permission slip of our "right" to be extended.