HB308

[K5GU]

I'm not an expert at bill analysis, but when I put HB 308 and HB 910 side by side am I reading it wrong or are there overlapping amendments to the same sections of the penal code, 46.035, etc.? Maybe by 'holding up' HB 308 they are avoiding the "conflicting acts of the same session" issues? I didn't stick my head completely into it, but it also looks like HB 308 doesn't include amendments for licensed OC.

[gljjt]

Jason K, you are right. The non-establishment OC & CC groups did get the discussions going especially in the media. And Watkins and Grisham did get the lions share of the media attention.

And neither of those is a good thing. They took what could have been the best legislative session I can remember, other than perhaps the initial CHL law, and tanked a good bit of it and caused undue efforts to get the rest through, assuming it isn't so damaged it can't make it through the process.

These folks need to understand their limitations and follow the lead those with proven track record.

[mr1337]

You catch more flies with honey than you do with vinegar.

[v7a]

They're the ones who are drumming up citizens to call and write their reps and senators to sound off on the bills.

Indeed. Many of us have had to triple our efforts with additional calls and letters in order to counteract and apologize for the antics of the mental midgets in the OCT movement.

Thank you OCT for inspiring the deranged ex-con who showed up at the capitol to testify. It was much appreciated by Moms Demand who looked reasonable and sane in comparison.

If you ask most people in Texas to name someone on the board of the TSRA, you'll get a blank look. You ask them who Ms. Tripp is, you'll get an even blanker look.

You seem to be under the misguided impression that most people in Texas know Grisham and Watkins by name. They are not known by their names, but as "the crazy people who threaten legislators and carry AK-47s in public because their criminal records prevent them from getting CHLs".

But using media to gain popular support and public discussion of the issues is equally--if not more--important.

Only a delusional person would think that the antics of OCT et al have increased support for Open Carry (let alone Unlicensed Open Carry which is dead in the water). Polling shows that public support for Campus Carry is far higher than Open Carry. It doesn't take a genius to figure out why.

[mojo84]

Maybe you and I define "success" differently....I stated that the non-establishment OC & CC groups were successful in getting the public and media discussion going. Denying that fact is hard to do....especially when you admitted it yourself. NRA and TSRA lost a great opportunity in 2011 and 2013 to start the discussion in a positive way. The other groups didn't squander the opportunity...even if a lot of those opportunities turned into blunders. I'd rather have seen NRA and TSRA bringing OC and CC in the public eye in those years. But, to paraphrase most Hollywood talent agents, the only thing worse than bad publicity is no publicity at all. And another paraphrase.....better to try and fail than never to try at all.

One good thing.....NRA is doing a bang-up job on using the Internet and "new media" to get the message out in the right way. I really like the way they're using NRA FREESTYLE & YOUTUBE to put the issues and gun owners out in a positive light. I hope the NRA's voice gets loud enough to drown out the Grishams and Watkinses. Nothing in this world gets done without public discussion anymore.....I'm glad to see the NRA speaking up.

The NRA and TSRA have done quite a bit for CC in the previous sessions. If it were not for them Campus Carry would not have made it as far as it did in the past. As far as Open Carry goes I know for a FACT that the TSRA rep (Alice Tripp) testified in support of OC in prior sessions even while she and anyone associated with the TSRA were being accused of trying to kill the bill. Remember the Interim Senate Hearing about Open Carry? It was the NRA and TSRA's efforts that got that hearing, they could have had a hearing on Campus Carry again or maybe one on removing off limits locations for CHLs but they asked for Open Carry. The TSRA and the NRA have not squandered any opportunity, what they have done is applied tried and true methods of getting legislation passed only to find themselves having to undo damage caused by folks on "our side" who feel a need to use "In Your Face" tactics. When the legislature started the NRA and TSRA reps got real busy and real quite because they are doing their best to get results, not sound bites. When passing controversial bills you have to budget your time and resources. Getting legislation passed often means you are too busy actually getting results for you to make statements or media appearances.

False, personal attack on a Form Member by Jason K has been deleted and he has been banned for gross rule violation.

Jason K, While you are heaping praise and credit on Grisham, Watkins et al, please update us on the status of the "constitutional carry" bills they supported and did so much yeoman's work to get passed. How did all that publicity work for their bills? Even when they testified, they didn't testify 'for" licensed concealed carry. They spoke "on" and then went into their normal diatribe of "constitutional carry" is the only thing acceptable.

The publicity and railing at the legislators by your buddies did more harm than good. What is being considered in the legislature, is what they were against until they realized their bills were going nowhere.

[K5GU]

Not seeing any movement on this bill. I'm afraid it got lost in all the furor about campus carry and open carry.

Exactly right!! So much political capital was spent on how we can carry (open-carry) as opposed to where we can carry (everywhere) that HB308 will not pass. That's a crying shame as it impacts 840,000+ CHLs in a manner that increases personal safety. Unfortunately, that argument has fallen on deaf ears. Not one life will be saved by open-carry, but how many people will be robbed, assaulted, raped or murdered walking between their cars and a location that is statutorily off-limits? Yeah, I'm bitter, very bitter!

Chas.

Charles, I may have missed some of your posts on this, but are you saying that you want HB 308 to pass and don't want HB 910 to pass this session ?

[ELB]

I think he saying that HB308 is far more important and far-reaching in extending 2A rights than HB910, but the frenzy around open carry has elevated the glamorous but relatively minor progress over the substantive.

[puma guy]

From the info on TLO HB308 was left pending in committee March 24. My take is that it's not going to make it any further than that. There are limits to the amount of political capital to be spent and with all the emphasis on OC, along with Campus Carry there's not much left in that wallet. JMHO.

[K5GU]

From the info on TLO HB308 was left pending in committee March 24. My take is that it's not going to make it any further than that. There are limits to the amount of political capital to be spent and with all the emphasis on OC, along with Campus Carry there's not much left in that wallet. JMHO.

You're probably correct. Also pertaining to HB308, I was surprised there weren't more Reps joining the list of supporters. The only name I see is author Springer's name, plus no companion bill at all. I am resigned to the fact I'll probably never understand politics.

[puma guy]

From the info on TLO HB308 was left pending in committee March 24. My take is that it's not going to make it any further than that. There are limits to the amount of political capital to be spent and with all the emphasis on OC, along with Campus Carry there's not much left in that wallet. JMHO.

You're probably correct. Also pertaining to HB308, I was surprised there weren't more Reps joining the list of supporters. The only name I see is author Springer's name, plus no companion bill at all. I am resigned to the fact I'll probably never understand politics.

You and me both.

[K5GU]

"I'm not an expert at bill analysis, but when I put HB 308 and HB 910 side by side am I reading it wrong or are there overlapping amendments to the same sections of the penal code, 46.035, etc.? Maybe by 'holding up' HB 308 they are avoiding the "conflicting acts of the same session" issues? ..."

I've created an aid (mainly for me) http://analogthinker.com/side%20by%20side%201.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; in trying to understand why HB308 is not getting more attention by law makers. I can't prove my theory eluded to in my previous post (pasted above), but I still think they may be trying to avoid a conundrum caused by multiple bills amending the same sections in a very important Gov. Code Act.

[Charles L. Cotton]

I think he saying that HB308 is far more important and far-reaching in extending 2A rights than HB910, but the frenzy around open carry has elevated the glamorous but relatively minor progress over the substantive.

Very well said. Yes, I want HB910 or SB17 to pass, but the cost was very high. I'll be glad to see open-carry off the radar so we can push for HB308-type legislation. I'm working on a two-year campaign to get it passed in 2017. I don't want to die or retire from politics with this unfinished.

Chas.

[Ivan244]

I think he saying that HB308 is far more important and far-reaching in extending 2A rights than HB910, but the frenzy around open carry has elevated the glamorous but relatively minor progress over the substantive.

Very well said. Yes, I want HB910 or SB17 to pass, but the cost was very high. I'll be glad to see open-carry off the radar so we can push for HB308-type legislation. I'm working on a two-year campaign to get it passed in 2017. I don't want to die or retire from politics with this unfinished.

Chas.

Thank you Charles for this dogged determination. As much as I appreciate CC and much less extent OC...I feel HB308 is a far superior expansion of my civil rights as a gun owner. Very disappointed to see that so much time, effort went into other bills that left a (IMO) superior bill DOA.

[Liberty]

While we tend to focus on the OC bill and the value, or the lack of it as you will. Its worthwhile to note that Campus carry if we get it through will be a major breakthrough, in furthering the cause of 308. I think that allowing campus carry and with the public observing that there has been no blood flowing on the classroom desktops. will make a bill like 308 might become an easier sell. next term. The university Bureaucrats. were a powerful force to overcome. Now beaten we can move on to the bigger goals.

Campus carry is a huge accomplishment, and will save lives. even if it is a baby step. It is a step forward. 10 years ago I would have thought this would be an impossible achievment. Today its within reach. Thanks to Charles and a few others on this forum who have done a tremendous amount of work

[AJSully421]

While we tend to focus on the OC bill and the value, or the lack of it as you will. Its worthwhile to note that Campus carry if we get it through will be a major breakthrough, in furthering the cause of 308. I think that allowing campus carry and with the public observing that there has been no blood flowing on the classroom desktops. will make a bill like 308 might become an easier sell. next term. The university Bureaucrats. were a powerful force to overcome. Now beaten we can move on to the bigger goals.

Campus carry is a huge accomplishment, and will save lives. even if it is a baby step. It is a step forward. 10 years ago I would have thought this would be an impossible achievment. Today its within reach. Thanks to Charles and a few others on this forum who have done a tremendous amount of work

Amen to all of the above. As I get older, I see the value in taking things slow and getting the job done, even if it takes a few sessions. The "all or nothing" bunch who want unlicensed carry or they will throw a fit are not going to be the ones who get it done.