Incapable of civil discourse and debate

[mojo84]

Here's another direct quote of Perry from the same article:

In his interview Thursday, Perry also said gun owners should be "appropriately backgrounded, appropriately vetted, appropriately trained."

"We license people to drive on our highways,” he said. “We give them that privilege. The same is true with our concealed handguns.”


Sounds like talking points right out of the liberal handbook.

Following this logic here we should also register guns, after all cars are registered. There is also no "right to drive" enumerated in the constitution.

.

The topic of this thread is civil discourse and debate, not the merits of licensed or unlicensed open-carry. I have to admit that I expected some folks to come to the defense of OCT and Grisham.

Chas.

I am in no way defending OCT or Grisham. Perry's remarks, however, deserve criticism through "civil discourse and debate". The absence of that from respected voices is disappointing. It also leaves ad hominem as the only response. Where is the discourse from the civil second amendment proponents?

I don't think this thread is intended to debate Gov. Perry's comments with civil discourse. I think there are other threads or potentially new ones for that. I think this thread is solely to discuss the inability or unwillingness of some to discuss things civilly and to acknowledge how detrimental that is to the cause. I may be wrong though.

[TXBO]

I don't think this thread is intended to debate Gov. Perry's comments with civil discourse. I think there are other threads or potentially new ones for that. I think this thread is solely to discuss the inability or unwillingness of some to discuss things civilly and to acknowledge how detrimental that is to the cause. I may be wrong though.

I'm certain you are right. I'm not looking for discourse concerning Perry's comments on this thread. I'm simply pointing out that absence of civil discourse in the media, leaves only the crazies to be heard. Where was the civil discourse?

[fickman]

I talked to her about Constitutional rights vs. privileges; I talked to her about how we let everybody vote even though they do great harm when they are uninformed, but we cannot give a literacy test. . ..

IIRC but felons can't vote in Texas.

EDIT: actual requirements:
http://www.sos.state.tx.us/elections/pa ... pamp.shtml" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Who can vote in Texas?
To be eligible to register to vote in Texas, a person must be:

•A United States citizen;
•A resident of the Texas county in which application for registration is made;
•At least 18 years old on Election Day;
•Not finally convicted of a felony, or, if so convicted must have (1) fully discharged the sentence, including any term of incarceration, parole, or supervision, or completed a period of probation ordered by any court; or (2) been pardoned or otherwise released from the resulting disability to vote; and
•Not determined by a final judgment of a court exercising probate jurisdiction to be (1) totally mentally incapacitated; or (2) partially mentally incapacitated without the right to vote.

So there are limits to everything, and everything should be discussed.

A Constitutional Right can be revoked through due process of law. That's the distinction between it and a privilege. (Some here will add that the Constitution doesn't grant us rights, it enumerates rights we have from God.)

A right is yours by default and they have to follow due process to remove it. A privilege you don't have, but can follow a process to obtain it.

The age criteria establishes the definition of citizens who are recognized as autonomous and, therefore, are vested with all of their rights.

[Cedar Park Dad]

Here's another direct quote of Perry from the same article:

In his interview Thursday, Perry also said gun owners should be "appropriately backgrounded, appropriately vetted, appropriately trained."

"We license people to drive on our highways,” he said. “We give them that privilege. The same is true with our concealed handguns.”


Sounds like talking points right out of the liberal handbook.

Following this logic here we should also register guns, after all cars are registered. There is also no "right to drive" enumerated in the constitution.

.

The topic of this thread is civil discourse and debate, not the merits of licensed or unlicensed open-carry. I have to admit that I expected some folks to come to the defense of OCT and Grisham.

Chas.

I am in no way defending OCT or Grisham. Perry's remarks, however, deserve criticism through "civil discourse and debate". The absence of that from respected voices is disappointing. It also leaves ad hominem as the only response. Where is the discourse from the civil second amendment proponents?

It might be that:
1. No one noticed as this appears pretty close to a FB type meme comment.
2. Some "civil" critics already have.

[TXBO]

Here's another direct quote of Perry from the same article:

In his interview Thursday, Perry also said gun owners should be "appropriately backgrounded, appropriately vetted, appropriately trained."

"We license people to drive on our highways,” he said. “We give them that privilege. The same is true with our concealed handguns.”


Sounds like talking points right out of the liberal handbook.

Following this logic here we should also register guns, after all cars are registered. There is also no "right to drive" enumerated in the constitution.

.

The topic of this thread is civil discourse and debate, not the merits of licensed or unlicensed open-carry. I have to admit that I expected some folks to come to the defense of OCT and Grisham.

Chas.

I am in no way defending OCT or Grisham. Perry's remarks, however, deserve criticism through "civil discourse and debate". The absence of that from respected voices is disappointing. It also leaves ad hominem as the only response. Where is the discourse from the civil second amendment proponents?

It might be that:
1. No one noticed as this appears pretty close to a FB type meme comment.
2. Some "civil" critics already have.

1. Perry's comments were made in an interview with the Texas Tribune and quoted by the Huffington Post. They reached well beyond a FB meme.
2. Maybe some have. I'd sure like to read them if anyone can find a link.

[Cedar Park Dad]

I'll be honest, I don't pay attention to him. he's not a government official or elected to any office.

[TomsTXCHL]

The topic of this thread is civil discourse and debate, not the merits of licensed or unlicensed open-carry. I have to admit that I expected some folks to come to the defense of OCT and Grisham.

There wasn't anything civil about the Grisham comment, so I wonder why you might expect any reasonable person to defend that completely childish attack of his?

[TXBO]

I'll be honest, I don't pay attention to him. he's not a government official or elected to any office.

He's a long serving ex-Governor, an ex-presidential candidate and a possible future GOP presidential candidate. His comments become fodder throughout the entire country.

[mojo84]

The topic of this thread is civil discourse and debate, not the merits of licensed or unlicensed open-carry. I have to admit that I expected some folks to come to the defense of OCT and Grisham.

There wasn't anything civil about the Grisham comment, so I wonder why you might expect any reasonable person to defend that completely childish attack of his?

Not trying to speak for Charles. I don't think he thought a "reasonable person" would try to defend Grisham or his comments.

[C-dub]

It is probably common knowledge that when you have no real substance to make a point on that you resort to cheap shots like this. Referring to CJ, of course.

What I don't understand is why he's going after Perry at all. He is no longer the Governor and holds no political office anywhere at this time and IF he were to somehow become the next president still wouldn't have much to say or any influence on Texas gun laws. Right now, Perry's personal opinion holds the same weight as mine.

[TXBO]

It is probably common knowledge that when you have no real substance to make a point on that you resort to cheap shots like this. Referring to CJ, of course.

What I don't understand is why he's going after Perry at all. He is no longer the Governor and holds no political office anywhere at this time and IF he were to somehow become the next president still wouldn't have much to say or any influence on Texas gun laws. Right now, Perry's personal opinion holds the same weight as mine.

He's planning a run for the White House in 2016. A potential GOP candidate and ex-Governor of the state of Texas' words are now being used by Moms Demand Action, Huffington Post and Bloomberg's Everytown.

[EEllis]

Here's another direct quote of Perry from the same article:

In his interview Thursday, Perry also said gun owners should be "appropriately backgrounded, appropriately vetted, appropriately trained."

"We license people to drive on our highways,” he said. “We give them that privilege. The same is true with our concealed handguns.”


Sounds like talking points right out of the liberal handbook.

Following this logic here we should also register guns, after all cars are registered. There is also no "right to drive" enumerated in the constitution.

.

Cars are registered for tax purposes. Licences have fees. Nothing about his comment really logically leads to registering guns and one can believe in the second without thinking it means you get to carry anything anywhere anyway.

[Charles L. Cotton]

Even if Rick Perry's comments were relevant to the 2015 Texas Legislative Session, which they are not, Grisham's/OCT's childish tactics are counterproductive. That's the point everyone needs to focus on and let the general public know this guy and his OCT don't speak for Texas gun owners.

As another Member stated, these folks don't care about the issue any longer, they simply enjoy what they believe to be a bully pulpit. In truth, they are preaching only to their own very small choir.

Chas.

[Oldgringo]

Even if Rick Perry's comments were relevant to the 2015 Texas Legislative Session, which they are not, Grisham's/OCT's childish tactics are counterproductive. That's the point everyone needs to focus on and let the general public know this guy and his OCT don't speak for Texas gun owners.

As another Member stated, these folks don't care about the issue any longer, they simply enjoy what they believe to be a bully pulpit. In truth, they are preaching only to their own very small choir.

Chas.

...and they may very well be the liberal anti-gunners "Fifth Column".....

[suthdj]

Here's another direct quote of Perry from the same article:

In his interview Thursday, Perry also said gun owners should be "appropriately backgrounded, appropriately vetted, appropriately trained."

"We license people to drive on our highways,” he said. “We give them that privilege. The same is true with our concealed handguns.”


Sounds like talking points right out of the liberal handbook.

This is no surprise, he is looking at 2016 and will say whatever it takes to get votes. He is a politician after all.