Carry at Dallas International Motorcycle Show

[Tazman]

All

This weekend is the International Motorcycle Show at the Dallas Convention Center (now called the "Kay Baily Hutchins Convention Center"). I need to know if I can carry there.

I went to the website for the show and the convention center and nothing.

There was a security number on the convention center website so I called and the lady there was clueless. She asked why I thought I needed to carry and I stated that I was licensed and could carry wherever the law permitted and that was why I was calling. She said she had no idea.

[RogueUSMC]

From their website...

What is your Weapons Policy?
The Kay Bailey Hutchison Convention Center Dallas follows all applicable State and local laws regarding weapons in the facility. Weapons of any kind are not allowed at collegiate, religious, or high school events pursuant to Texas Penal Code (§46.03 & §46.035). Event organizers may further restrict weapons based upon their association’s/ organization’s rules and regulations.

http://www.dallasconventioncenter.com/contact-us/faqs/

[RogueUSMC]

Looks like they let the event decide...

[ralewis]

Looks like it's city owned, so can the event prohibit CHL carry if there isn't one of the prohibited events occurring? Don't think it matters who is the event organizer. I guess if they wand you or make you go thru a metal detector, that's creates a dilemma as to whether you want to debate the issue or not….

From the FAQ...
The Kay Bailey Hutchison Convention Center is owned and managed by the City of Dallas. All positions are posted on the City’s website. Applying for positions with the Convention Center or the City of Dallas, you must apply at http://www.dallascityhall.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[RogueUSMC]

I have that same discussion here with the local law enforcement at the gun show. They say that when the facility is leased to someone, it isn't city property while the lease term is in effect...

[cb1000rider]

I have that same discussion here with the local law enforcement at the gun show. They say that when the facility is leased to someone, it isn't city property while the lease term is in effect...

The law doesn't have an exception for lease or control. The law deals with the ownership of the property. IE - 30.06 is not successfully prosecutable. Law enforcement may choose to enforce. Hopefully the laws will change so that invalid postings come with some ability to take civil action... Right now there is no downside.

[The Annoyed Man]

I have that same discussion here with the local law enforcement at the gun show. They say that when the facility is leased to someone, it isn't city property while the lease term is in effect...

The law doesn't have an exception for lease or control. The law deals with the ownership of the property. IE - 30.06 is not successfully prosecutable. Law enforcement may choose to enforce. Hopefully the laws will change so that invalid postings come with some ability to take civil action... Right now there is no downside.

There's the law, and then there's what municipalities think they should or shouldn't enforce.

What follows is not my opinion of how things should be, but my observation of how they are:

The Fort Worth gun shows are held in a municipally owned facility, and they are prominently posted 30.06 by the promoters. The city not only cooperates with that, but provides police officers to enforce it. Their argument appears to be that 30.06 may be posted by the person/organization in control of the property......which means that the property may be owned by the city, but that the promoter controls the property during the event. When the facility is not in use, then the city is in control of it, and 30.06 may not be posted.

Furthermore, when I have been to plenty of gun shows in Fort Worth. Several times, I have observed more than one event occurring simultaneously in the building—gun show in the large hall on left side of the main hallway as you walk in, and a jewelry/knitting/scapbooking/banquet/whatever show in the hall(s) on the other side the main hallway. Whenever I've seen that, the gun show has been prominently posted 30.06, but the event across the hall is not. I therefore assume that 30.06 applies specifically to the room the gun show is in, and not to other areas of the building—because that is the area the gun show promoters are in control of during the event, and not any other part of the building.

[Charles L. Cotton]

The Houston Police Dept. made it clear that its officers working extra jobs at guns shows held on city property would not enforce 30.06 signs. They correctly acknowledged that the law did not allow 30.06 signs to be enforced on city property. The gun shows then started using Harris County Deputy Sheriffs to handle security.

Chas.

[RogueUSMC]

I disarm at the gun show but that is just because I agreed to it when I signed for a table, not because of the 30.06 sign. I AM about 5 seconds from condition 0 at all times though. The rule I agreed to was "gun strapped, and magazines empty", therefore, I have my revolver (usually on the table to call attention to the table) with a speedloader in my pocket. Am I breaking the spirit of the rule? Probably. But ask me how much I care...

They say it is because the insurance company requires it but they don't seem to have a problem with it so their excuse falls flat.

Truth be told, it wouldn't surprise me if better than half didn't disarm...it seems to me like a 'don't ask, don't tell' kinda thing.

[ELB]

The Houston Police Dept. made it clear that its officers working extra jobs at guns shows held on city property would not enforce 30.06 signs. They correctly acknowledged that the law did not allow 30.06 signs to be enforced on city property. The gun shows then started using Harris County Deputy Sheriffs to handle security.

Chas.

Interesting. Although there is not yet a mechanism in the statutes for taking action against governmental entities for posting (or allowing to be posted) 30.06 signs, it does seem like there ought to be a cause of action if a peace officer enforces an illegally created no-go zone against CHL carriers by either preventing entry or arresting (or detaining, or ejecting etc etc). I really don't see how at this stage of the CHL game that law enforcement could claim that such enforcement was in good faith or that the law was not clear.

[Keith B]

The Houston Police Dept. made it clear that its officers working extra jobs at guns shows held on city property would not enforce 30.06 signs. They correctly acknowledged that the law did not allow 30.06 signs to be enforced on city property. The gun shows then started using Harris County Deputy Sheriffs to handle security.

Chas.

Interesting. Although there is not yet a mechanism in the statutes for taking action against governmental entities for posting (or allowing to be posted) 30.06 signs, it does seem like there ought to be a cause of action if a peace officer enforces an illegally created no-go zone against CHL carriers by either preventing entry or arresting (or detaining, or ejecting etc etc). I really don't see how at this stage of the CHL game that law enforcement could claim that such enforcement was in good faith or that the law was not clear.

Hopefully SB 273 will take care of that http://www.legis.state.tx.us/Search/Doc ... &DocType=B" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Glockster]

The Houston Police Dept. made it clear that its officers working extra jobs at guns shows held on city property would not enforce 30.06 signs. They correctly acknowledged that the law did not allow 30.06 signs to be enforced on city property. The gun shows then started using Harris County Deputy Sheriffs to handle security.

Chas.

Interesting. Although there is not yet a mechanism in the statutes for taking action against governmental entities for posting (or allowing to be posted) 30.06 signs, it does seem like there ought to be a cause of action if a peace officer enforces an illegally created no-go zone against CHL carriers by either preventing entry or arresting (or detaining, or ejecting etc etc). I really don't see how at this stage of the CHL game that law enforcement could claim that such enforcement was in good faith or that the law was not clear.

Hopefully SB 273 will take care of that http://www.legis.state.tx.us/Search/Doc ... &DocType=B" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

As much as I would love to see that, I'm not sure this would actually take care of the problem? What I read is that upon the AG determining that an action is warranted, that the entity then has 15 days to remove the sign without penalty, unless they've been previously found in violation by the court. So doesn't that mean that they can still post away, and if/when caught will simply be told that they have 15 days to comply with THAT violation? And I'm not seeing anything then which stops them from starting again the day after they took any sign down as they have to have a previous court finding, not an AG finding.

Better than current law, I think, but it seems that it will still allow for abuse.

[Tazman]

From their website...

What is your Weapons Policy?
The Kay Bailey Hutchison Convention Center Dallas follows all applicable State and local laws regarding weapons in the facility. Weapons of any kind are not allowed at collegiate, religious, or high school events pursuant to Texas Penal Code (§46.03 & §46.035). Event organizers may further restrict weapons based upon their association’s/ organization’s rules and regulations.

http://www.dallasconventioncenter.com/contact-us/faqs/

Thanks, I guess I missed that part of the FAQ in my haste to find an answer.

Still no definitive answer - if I were in a car, it wouldn't be an issue as I would just do the walk of shame back to the car and put the weapon in a lock box. Unfortunately, I do not have that luxury on a motorcycle as there is no place to stash it!

[gemini]

All

This weekend is the International Motorcycle Show at the Dallas Convention Center (now called the "Kay Baily Hutchins Convention Center"). I need to know if I can carry there.

I went to the website for the show and the convention center and nothing.

There was a security number on the convention center website so I called and the lady there was clueless. She asked why I thought I needed to carry and I stated that I was licensed and could carry wherever the law permitted and that was why I was calling. She said she had no idea.

I have been to the last 2 or 3 IMS shows in Dallas. I have carried there each and every time. There was no 30.06 or gunbuster signs anywhere.
Please quit calling them (convention center management). No need in alerting them or stirring up a "situation" which will cause them to post.

Edit to include Weapons Policy of Convention Cntr: http://www.dallasconventioncenter.com/contact-us/faqs/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
scroll to the bottom.

[MeMelYup]

From their website...

What is your Weapons Policy?
The Kay Bailey Hutchison Convention Center Dallas follows all applicable State and local laws regarding weapons in the facility. Weapons of any kind are not allowed at collegiate, religious, or high school events pursuant to Texas Penal Code (§46.03 & §46.035). Event organizers may further restrict weapons based upon their association’s/ organization’s rules and regulations.

http://www.dallasconventioncenter.com/contact-us/faqs/

Thanks, I guess I missed that part of the FAQ in my haste to find an answer.

Still no definitive answer - if I were in a car, it wouldn't be an issue as I would just do the walk of shame back to the car and put the weapon in a lock box. Unfortunately, I do not have that luxury on a motorcycle as there is no place to stash it!

According to their statement they do not abide by State Law. State Law states that city owned or leased property is not 30.06 enforceable. The statement is saying that a leasing of city property by a vender is 30.06 enforceable.