Present CHL to Border Patrol?

[fickman]

on my way home from France.

I had not been to ... a communist adversary

(Obviously just kidding)

[Dadtodabone]

Such was my experience.
http://texaschlforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=83&t=68698

Just read your post.....entertainingly written, by the way. One of your respondents described your wife's character in response to that situation as "spirited". I agree. And please understand I am not dumping on her because she indeed sounds "fetching", as you described her.........BUT......."spirited" is not always "wise". Whenever I am personally tempted to get loud and proud in the face of authority, I remind myself of that Biblical injunction to be "quiet as doves, and wise as serpents"

I'll offer you the same reply,from a follow on post, that I made to texanjoker in regards my wife's behavior.

I can say from working with them they get treated like garbage non stop and the ones working the borders have a tough job as nobody likes them, they often get shot at, yet they are our only line of defense against all that crosses the border. Maybe it's just me but I cut them some slack.

If my wife stating in a calm, level voice that the CBP agent had no business inquiring into our activities, is in someway poor treatment of the agent, I beg to differ. Or did my reference to her being possessed influence your view of her statement. That she replied in the negative to an authority figure of any stripe, not once but twice, was the cause for surprise. She wasn't shouting or combative, didn't needlessly repeat her statements ad nauseum, she simply refused to provide information. Perhaps she should just have invoked her 5th Amendment right against self-incrimination, I fail to see how that would have improved the situation though.
When is it okay to refuse to be coerced by anyone acting under color of law? Does a tough job, being shot at or being disliked allow them the usurpation of the rights granted to us by God and protected within our Constitution?

I'm glad you enjoyed my post. I was trying to provide some interesting facts in a manner that was light and enjoyable. The exchange of opinion that followed it, however, forever changed how I view our government and some who serve it.

[Dadtodabone]

My heart yearns for an earlier America, 1990.

Capt. Vasili Borodin: I will live in Montana. And I will marry a round American woman and raise rabbits, and she will cook them for me. And I will have a pickup truck... maybe even a "recreational vehicle." And drive from state to state. Do they let you do that?
Captain Ramius: I suppose.
Capt. Vasili Borodin: No papers?
Captain Ramius: No papers, state to state.
Capt. Vasili Borodin: Well then, in winter I will live in... Arizona. Actually, I think I will need two wives.
Captain Ramius: Oh, at least.

With thanks to Mr. Tom Clancy

[fickman]

on my way home from France.

I had not been to ... a communist adversary

(Obviously just kidding)

Dadgum bad timing.

I normally like to poke at the French, but I want to rescind this joke today and stand with them as they (along with some basic freedoms like speech, the press, expression, and religion) have come under attack.

I hope they see justice done, and I hope the have brave men and women who refuse to cower to these terrorists.

[The Annoyed Man]

I'm glad you enjoyed my post. I was trying to provide some interesting facts in a manner that was light and enjoyable. The exchange of opinion that followed it, however, forever changed how I view our government and some who serve it.

As did my own experience at DFW.

[The Annoyed Man]

I normally like to poke at the French, but I want to rescind this joke today and stand with them as they (along with some basic freedoms like speech, the press, expression, and religion) have come under attack.

I hope they see justice done, and I hope the have brave men and women who refuse to cower to these terrorists.

I just saw that. I think it is high time that the world's civilized nations begin moving mountains to crush terrorism. I also think that it is high time that civilized nations stop using the language of diplomacy and call out nations that either host or fund it. Iran wants to support it? Fine. Drop a bomb on their ass.

Other than that, I have no opinion.

[Abraham]

I just finished watching a number of Youtube videos regarding the principle of U.S. citizens refusing to answer the BP checkpoint question: "Are you a U.S. citizen?

There are a LOT of people refusing to answer that particular question.

Every one who refused was eventually told they could leave without answering the question, (they simply wore down the BP agent with their refusals) nor did they pull over into a designated parking spot, or open their car trunk when commanded to do so.

I was astonished.

However, I read (not a Youtube video) that when a trucker refused to answer the U.S. citizenship question, one BP agent smashed the window glass, hauled the trucker out and arrested him.

So, while you can keep repeatedly asking if "you're being detained" and "am I free to go", not all BP agents can be worn down with those questions.

Some, go ape!

[fickman]

Some, go ape!

Could CDLs have different expectations? I don't know.

The one thing you're missing, though, is that eventually, after 12-15 years of calls to "that's not my department" and "let me forward you to somebody else", you may resort to contacting a news agency or attorney that finds your story interesting, and the Feds just might eventually pay for that window and put a one-sentence reprimand into the file of the "overachiever".

[fickman]

Some, go ape!

Could CDLs have different expectations? I don't know.

The one thing you're missing, though, is that eventually, after 12-15 years of calls to "that's not my department" and "let me forward you to somebody else", you may resort to contacting a news agency or attorney that finds your story interesting, and the Feds just might eventually pay for that window and put a one-sentence reprimand into the file of the "overachiever".

Honestly, that's why I keep bringing up "common sense". Any BP agent worth their salt will know the answer to the question before I'm done with my philosophical soapbox.

But what if they're wrong and I'm not a citizen? Well, they were about to take my word for it (99% of the time without proof) anyway. . . what additional / more reliable information would they learn from a yes/no answer?

It's mindless theatrics akin to TSA asking me if I packed my own bag.

[fickman]

I just finished watching a number of Youtube videos regarding the principle of U.S. citizens refusing to answer the BP checkpoint question: "Are you a U.S. citizen?

There are a LOT of people refusing to answer that particular question.

hahahahahaha. . . one more post. . . I just stumbled across this video:

[youtube][/youtube]

EDIT TO ADD:
This news story is about a Fort Worth man arrested at an internal checkpoint near Laredo for refusing to comply. It is interesting to hear the ACLU attorney's input. I would not advise refusing to go to secondary like I have seen some videos do. . . YMMV.
http://www.kgns.tv/home/headlines/More- ... 90931.html

[Abraham]

Why are they (BP) bothering us about U.S. citizenship inland, if they sincerely believe we're not citizens?

Because that's a bogus excuse for police state tactics.

This baloney isn't right.

I'm now in the league of those who refuse to answer such ludicrous questions.

(because I was too chicken before...)

[anygunanywhere]

If BP/ICE actually followed the law on every illegal they caught it would be a different story.

[Jaguar]

Here is a story of a man arrested and held by the border patrol because he exercised his constitutional rights. He was released after 19 days and the charges were dropped.

http://reason.com/blog/2015/01/06/watch ... igration-c" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I guess the question is, as Abraham asked earlier, how much are you willing to suffer for your rights?

[cb1000rider]

My guess is that this particular example is going to be pretty expensive for taxpayers.

I can't watch that stuff.. It just makes me ill.

[Dadtodabone]

Why are they (BP) bothering us about U.S. citizenship inland, if they sincerely believe we're not citizens?

Because that's a bogus excuse for police state tactics.

This baloney isn't right.

I'm now in the league of those who refuse to answer such ludicrous questions.

(because I was too chicken before...)

Welcome aboard.