Questions for OCT

[Charles L. Cotton]

While CJ Grisham/OCT doesn't want Texas gun owners to know the answers to the three critical questions in the first post in this thread, Open Carry Tarrant County has made their position clear. https://www.facebook.com/pages/Open-Car ... 2461093911" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; Look at the poster of Rep. Phillips and the OCTC caption. Look also at OCTC's Nov. 22nd call for a so-called "phone bomb" against Rep. Phillips.

Mr. Grisham, it's time to distance OCT from OCTC. Texas gun owners have a right to know OCT's position. Here are the questions again:

• 1. Will OCT support any or all licensed open-carry bills during the 2015 Texas Legislative Session?
  2. Will OCT oppose any or all licensed open-carry billls?
  3. Will OCT support only HB195 - unlicensed open-carry?

So far, your silence speaks volumes!

Chas.

[MeMelYup]

I think Rep. Phillips is stating that he thinks the 2nd Amendment is a federal or state right and not an individual right. His statement would have been enough that I would have possibly voted for his apponent.

[Charles L. Cotton]

I think Rep. Phillips is stating that he thinks the 2nd Amendment is a federal or state right and not an individual right. His statement would have been enough that I would have possibly voted for his apponent.

That wasn't Rep. Phillips statement at all! Rep. Phillips supports removing the concealment requirement for CHL's, so the open-carry zealots feel free to make unfounded claims. It's part of the "my way or no way" attitude. It's also why we need to know where OCT stands on the various open-carry bills.

Chas.

[Charlies.Contingency]

I think Rep. Phillips is stating that he thinks the 2nd Amendment is a federal or state right and not an individual right. His statement would have been enough that I would have possibly voted for his apponent.

That wasn't Rep. Phillips statement at all! Rep. Phillips supports removing the concealment requirement for CHL's, so the open-carry zealots feel free to make unfounded claims. It's part of the "my way or no way" attitude. It's also why we need to know where OCT stands on the various open-carry bills.

Chas.

It seemed to me, from surfing the various OCT sites, that they were for HB195, or nothing at all. Especially OCTC, they had several pictures and messages stating this. I could be wrong, but this is what I thought they wanted. To me they want only HB-195, and they will support no other.

[tomdavis]

At this point I submit that the OCT folks are about as transparent as the Obama regime and are enjoying our efforts to try and discuss this. As they like that SOP--same as the non-transparent liberals--then that is it how they will be known. It is well known that those on the far extremes are closer together than one would ever imagine. OCT & the Progressive Liberals are not too far apart in how they operate.

[cb1000rider]

I think Rep. Phillips is stating that he thinks the 2nd Amendment is a federal or state right and not an individual right. His statement would have been enough that I would have possibly voted for his apponent.

A great example of why this sort of political advertising works wonders. People take it at face value. Quotes used out of context survive decades... Heck, lets take it further and not even make it a quote at all, like in this case... yet people buy it at face value. You pretty much can't trust anything you read from any source with an agenda.

I'm not sure I criticize all the "OCT folks". Leadership, yes within context... Entire membership no. And I'm not going to associate them with Obama and Liberals, which seem to be worst allowable descriptor on this forum. There probably is some level of common ground within the membership, why alienate everyone? That's not what we're about.

OCT leadership should factually address the questions.. If I was an OCT member, I'd want to know the answers. And as someone who supports some of what they're after (not necessarily how they do it), I'm interested in hearing their response. These are important issues that OCT membership has the right to know about.

[carlson1]

At this point I submit that the OCT folks are about as transparent as the Obama regime and are enjoying our efforts to try and discuss this. As they like that SOP--same as the non-transparent liberals--then that is it how they will be known. It is well known that those on the far extremes are closer together than one would ever imagine. OCT & the Progressive Liberals are not too far apart in how they operate.

Well said.

[paxton25]

I don't get it, if they are everything many in here say they are and the bill they support won't get any traction then why does it seem some are pushing them to support compromise licensed open carry bills? If they are so irrelevant and caustic why call them out for not supporting other bills? From a pure strategy point of view letting them put all of their resources into a bill the experts say won't get passed seems like a good idea. And if you succeed in getting them to support a licensed open carry bill that TSRA/NRA is working to pass and they demonstrate in support of it because you convinced them to do so isn't that going to bring your bill bad press and all the other things you condemn them for?

[G.A. Heath]

I don't get it, if they are everything many in here say they are and the bill they support won't get any traction then why does it seem some are pushing them to support compromise licensed open carry bills? If they are so irrelevant and caustic why call them out for not supporting other bills? From a pure strategy point of view letting them put all of their resources into a bill the experts say won't get passed seems like a good idea. And if you succeed in getting them to support a licensed open carry bill that TSRA/NRA is working to pass and they demonstrate in support of it because you convinced them to do so isn't that going to bring your bill bad press and all the other things you condemn them for?

The problem is not that they can get legislation passed, but that they can do tons of damage to bills, even the ones they support. If we are to get OC passed, in any form, OCT, OCTC, CATI, Texas Carry, and others will need to learn some manners in regards to politics. If/When their bill fails they will go berserk and start attacking anything they see as "an infringement", even if it means that current infringements are lessened w/o adding new ones.

[paxton25]

OK, so the question still remains, if everything you said is true why are people spending so much time and effort in asking if they will support other bills? If I thought someone was going to do damage to my bill I sure wouldn't be calling them out for not supporting it, they just might take me up on it.

I don't get it, if they are everything many in here say they are and the bill they support won't get any traction then why does it seem some are pushing them to support compromise licensed open carry bills? If they are so irrelevant and caustic why call them out for not supporting other bills? From a pure strategy point of view letting them put all of their resources into a bill the experts say won't get passed seems like a good idea. And if you succeed in getting them to support a licensed open carry bill that TSRA/NRA is working to pass and they demonstrate in support of it because you convinced them to do so isn't that going to bring your bill bad press and all the other things you condemn them for?

The problem is not that they can get legislation passed, but that they can do tons of damage to bills, even the ones they support. If we are to get OC passed, in any form, OCT, OCTC, CATI, Texas Carry, and others will need to learn some manners in regards to politics. If/When their bill fails they will go berserk and start attacking anything they see as "an infringement", even if it means that current infringements are lessened w/o adding new ones.

[G.A. Heath]

OK, so the question still remains, if everything you said is true why are people spending so much time and effort in asking if they will support other bills? If I thought someone was going to do damage to my bill I sure wouldn't be calling them out for not supporting it, they just might take me up on it.

I don't get it, if they are everything many in here say they are and the bill they support won't get any traction then why does it seem some are pushing them to support compromise licensed open carry bills? If they are so irrelevant and caustic why call them out for not supporting other bills? From a pure strategy point of view letting them put all of their resources into a bill the experts say won't get passed seems like a good idea. And if you succeed in getting them to support a licensed open carry bill that TSRA/NRA is working to pass and they demonstrate in support of it because you convinced them to do so isn't that going to bring your bill bad press and all the other things you condemn them for?

The problem is not that they can get legislation passed, but that they can do tons of damage to bills, even the ones they support. If we are to get OC passed, in any form, OCT, OCTC, CATI, Texas Carry, and others will need to learn some manners in regards to politics. If/When their bill fails they will go berserk and start attacking anything they see as "an infringement", even if it means that current infringements are lessened w/o adding new ones.

Its more about getting them to make their position public, when that happens you can use that public position to mitigate some of the damage they can cause. Suppose they say "we will support any OC bill, although we will focus our effort on the NAGR/OCT bill." or "We will not oppose any OC bill, but we will only support our bill." After that they start attacking the OC bills you can simply take that earlier position and use it to reign them in OR show legislators how they can not be trusted (Which means that you have hurt their ability to hurt you). I suspect OCT is afraid of this or other political fallout they would experience from making their position public and that is why they refuse to respond. After all it makes it easier to lie or drum up your followers when your only on the record in your own little echo chamber.

[Charles L. Cotton]

OK, so the question still remains, if everything you said is true why are people spending so much time and effort in asking if they will support other bills? If I thought someone was going to do damage to my bill I sure wouldn't be calling them out for not supporting it, they just might take me up on it.

I don't get it, if they are everything many in here say they are and the bill they support won't get any traction then why does it seem some are pushing them to support compromise licensed open carry bills? If they are so irrelevant and caustic why call them out for not supporting other bills? From a pure strategy point of view letting them put all of their resources into a bill the experts say won't get passed seems like a good idea. And if you succeed in getting them to support a licensed open carry bill that TSRA/NRA is working to pass and they demonstrate in support of it because you convinced them to do so isn't that going to bring your bill bad press and all the other things you condemn them for?

The problem is not that they can get legislation passed, but that they can do tons of damage to bills, even the ones they support. If we are to get OC passed, in any form, OCT, OCTC, CATI, Texas Carry, and others will need to learn some manners in regards to politics. If/When their bill fails they will go berserk and start attacking anything they see as "an infringement", even if it means that current infringements are lessened w/o adding new ones.

It's a matter of being above board and intellectually honest. OCT initially supported open-carry in any form, but in recent months they appear to support only unlicensed open-carry. OCTC could be a different story; I'm not sure what their position has been earlier. They are already attacking Rep. Phillips because he supports removing the concealment requirement for CHL's. In fact, they are calling for illegal conduct in the form of a so-called "phone bomb" directed at his cell phone number. It's one thing to give out his Austin and District office phone numbers (state owned), but publishing his cell phone number is a different story. I hope none of the OCTC followers are foolish enough to listen to very poor advice.

I also see a lie coming from OCTC and/or OCT at the end of the session, regardless of what passes or does not pass. Everyone with a modicum of intelligence knows quite well why OCT won't state its position on licensed open-carry bills. This not the conduct of a reputable organization.

A broader reason for ether getting OCT to state its position, or call out and publicize their refusal to do so, is to differentiate for the general public reputable organizations that clearly state their positions and do not attack legislators unjustly. We don't want voters opposing any, much all, open-carry bills because of the irresponsible acts of a very small minority of open-carry supporters.

Chas.

[JKTex]

From the OCTC FB page, a sample of an upstanding gentlemen and his letter to Rep Philips. This, is what "we" are up against.

From OCTC Facebook pages dated Nov. 25, 2014
"To: "Larry.Phillips@house.state.tx.us" <Larry.Phillips@house.state.tx.us>
Subject: Feeling butthurt lately?
So you got a taste of how things are going to be around here if you continue to not honor you oath to the Constitution, and try to trample on our Constitutionally protected Civil Rights.
There is a very easy way to turn this all around. Publicly support HB195, or better yet cosponsor the bill. Do the right thing and do your job!
Martin Cohn"

Not sure whether to laugh or be concerned. Concerned is in the lead. This is what our elected have to wade through?

[rbwhatever1]

From the OCTC FB page, a sample of an upstanding gentlemen and his letter to Rep Philips. This, is what "we" are up against.

From OCTC Facebook pages dated Nov. 25, 2014
"To: "Larry.Phillips@house.state.tx.us" <Larry.Phillips@house.state.tx.us>
Subject: Feeling butthurt lately?
So you got a taste of how things are going to be around here if you continue to not honor you oath to the Constitution, and try to trample on our Constitutionally protected Civil Rights.
There is a very easy way to turn this all around. Publicly support HB195, or better yet cosponsor the bill. Do the right thing and do your job!
Martin Cohn"

Not sure whether to laugh or be concerned. Concerned is in the lead. This is what our elected have to wade through?

A very childish email written by a moron.

[Bladed]

From the OCTC FB page, a sample of an upstanding gentlemen and his letter to Rep Philips. This, is what "we" are up against.

From OCTC Facebook pages dated Nov. 25, 2014
"To: "Larry.Phillips@house.state.tx.us" <Larry.Phillips@house.state.tx.us>
Subject: Feeling butthurt lately?
So you got a taste of how things are going to be around here if you continue to not honor you oath to the Constitution, and try to trample on our Constitutionally protected Civil Rights.
There is a very easy way to turn this all around. Publicly support HB195, or better yet cosponsor the bill. Do the right thing and do your job!
Martin Cohn"

Not sure whether to laugh or be concerned. Concerned is in the lead. This is what our elected have to wade through?

Legislators talk to one another. More than that, their staffers talk to one another. If one Representative is being harassed by open carry activists, you can bet that most of his fellow Representatives know about it and that a lot of them are unhappy about it.

Every movement has at least a few fringe supporters who cross the lines of decorum, but the successful movements are led by people who seek to curb such unproductive behavior. Who in the open carry movement is actively and publicly working to prevent these types of attacks?