need plumbing help/advice....
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need plumbing help/advice....
I know that some of you must be for real plumbers, and I'm looking for opinions/help for a problem faced by my son.
My son and DIL bought a first home in North Richland Hills almost two years ago. It is an older home, built in 1952 (that was a good year ), and the sellers refurbished it and flipped it. The sale was "as is", but the home appeared to be in very good shape and it easily passed inspection. However, one major flaw has become a large thorn in my son's side.
The sewage line exits the back of the house and makes a beeline across the back yard for the rear fence. My son doesn't know where the actual sewer is located, so he has no guarantee that the pipe from his house actually empties into the municipal sewer line or not, but there appears to be an easement of some kind at the back of the property, because that is where the telephone lines are......and there are no manhole covers on the street at all. The problem is that the line from the house has a dip in it at one one point where it dips down and then back up, and it has become choked with roots. The dip means that even without the root problem, sewage flow out from the house isn't reliable, and the line backs up easily. It makes it difficult to use their washing machine without experiencing frequent backups, and let's not mention the showers and the toilets. He had a plumber out because his own efforts to clear the line himself with a snake were a failure. The plumber - a guy from Benjamin Franklin Plumbing - ran a camera down the pipe, found the root blockage, and cleared it out. Of course, that is a temporary fix as the roots will eventually grow back into the pipe; and the problem with poor flow due to the dip in the line remains.
Anyway, and this is where my son needs help, the upshot is that the sewage line out from the house to the sewer needs to be dug up and replaced. The horizontal distance from the back of the house to the back of the property where, presumably, the municipal sewer easement lies is 125 ft. The Benjamin Franklin guy quoted my son $4,000 to dig up and replace the line from the house to the sewer. That seems like a LOT of money to dig a trench maybe a foot and half deep and lay in the new line. In fact, it seems way overpriced. I suspect that Franklin is taking advantage of my son as a new homeowner. My son is willing to do the digging and backfilling if that will save money on the job. Like a lot of first time homeowners, their mortgage payment takes a BIG bite out of their monthly income, and they just cannot afford $4,000 to fix what seems like a fairly simple problem.
Here is an aerial snapshot from Google Maps of the layout: If you are a plumber, can one of you please tell me if you can do this job for less than this? Again, my son is willing to aid the process by doing the digging if that will save him some money. But $4,000 is so far out of his price range that it just isn't possible, and to me, it just seems usurious.
If you can help and are available to take this on for a more reasonable price, please PM me and I'll put you in touch with my son.
By the way, he is also a gunsmith and knife-maker, and he might be able to help make this worth your while in other ways.
My son and DIL bought a first home in North Richland Hills almost two years ago. It is an older home, built in 1952 (that was a good year ), and the sellers refurbished it and flipped it. The sale was "as is", but the home appeared to be in very good shape and it easily passed inspection. However, one major flaw has become a large thorn in my son's side.
The sewage line exits the back of the house and makes a beeline across the back yard for the rear fence. My son doesn't know where the actual sewer is located, so he has no guarantee that the pipe from his house actually empties into the municipal sewer line or not, but there appears to be an easement of some kind at the back of the property, because that is where the telephone lines are......and there are no manhole covers on the street at all. The problem is that the line from the house has a dip in it at one one point where it dips down and then back up, and it has become choked with roots. The dip means that even without the root problem, sewage flow out from the house isn't reliable, and the line backs up easily. It makes it difficult to use their washing machine without experiencing frequent backups, and let's not mention the showers and the toilets. He had a plumber out because his own efforts to clear the line himself with a snake were a failure. The plumber - a guy from Benjamin Franklin Plumbing - ran a camera down the pipe, found the root blockage, and cleared it out. Of course, that is a temporary fix as the roots will eventually grow back into the pipe; and the problem with poor flow due to the dip in the line remains.
Anyway, and this is where my son needs help, the upshot is that the sewage line out from the house to the sewer needs to be dug up and replaced. The horizontal distance from the back of the house to the back of the property where, presumably, the municipal sewer easement lies is 125 ft. The Benjamin Franklin guy quoted my son $4,000 to dig up and replace the line from the house to the sewer. That seems like a LOT of money to dig a trench maybe a foot and half deep and lay in the new line. In fact, it seems way overpriced. I suspect that Franklin is taking advantage of my son as a new homeowner. My son is willing to do the digging and backfilling if that will save money on the job. Like a lot of first time homeowners, their mortgage payment takes a BIG bite out of their monthly income, and they just cannot afford $4,000 to fix what seems like a fairly simple problem.
Here is an aerial snapshot from Google Maps of the layout: If you are a plumber, can one of you please tell me if you can do this job for less than this? Again, my son is willing to aid the process by doing the digging if that will save him some money. But $4,000 is so far out of his price range that it just isn't possible, and to me, it just seems usurious.
If you can help and are available to take this on for a more reasonable price, please PM me and I'll put you in touch with my son.
By the way, he is also a gunsmith and knife-maker, and he might be able to help make this worth your while in other ways.
“Hard times create strong men. Strong men create good times. Good times create weak men. And, weak men create hard times.”
― G. Michael Hopf, "Those Who Remain"
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― G. Michael Hopf, "Those Who Remain"
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Re: need plumbing help/advice....
TAM, I am not a plumber but I can recommend Home Town Plumbing out of Irving. They have repaired a similar problem for me a few years ago. I think we paid about $3500.00 but they were the least expensive quote we received. However, our line was close to 10' down so they had to dig a deep trench to get to it.
Also, I am not sure about NRH but in Irving, they had to pull a permit and get a couple of inspections before they closed the trench. There apparently different rules now than there were in 69 when my house was built. They had to put in what I think was stabilized sand to lay the pipe on and then have it inspected then put in the pipe and another inspection then they covered it. So at least for mine, it wasn't such a simple job.
If you would like to contact Home Town they are at.
317 Knob Oak Ct, Irving, TX 75060
(972) 790-8449
Also, I am not sure about NRH but in Irving, they had to pull a permit and get a couple of inspections before they closed the trench. There apparently different rules now than there were in 69 when my house was built. They had to put in what I think was stabilized sand to lay the pipe on and then have it inspected then put in the pipe and another inspection then they covered it. So at least for mine, it wasn't such a simple job.
If you would like to contact Home Town they are at.
317 Knob Oak Ct, Irving, TX 75060
(972) 790-8449
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Re: need plumbing help/advice....
Thanks RPBrown. I'll mention that to my son. But his line really is only about 12"-18" below the surface, so the excavation and backfill would have to be simpler and less expensive. I think that the fact that the line is so shallow is part of the problem with poor drainage.
“Hard times create strong men. Strong men create good times. Good times create weak men. And, weak men create hard times.”
― G. Michael Hopf, "Those Who Remain"
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― G. Michael Hopf, "Those Who Remain"
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Re: need plumbing help/advice....
I think you will find that the government overhead is a significant percentage of the cost of having a professional do the work. I can't suggest breaking the law but I hear stories about DIYers doing easy fixes under cover of darkness, figuratively speaking.
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Re: need plumbing help/advice....
If it is that shallow, I would rent a small back hoe and do it myself. You can get everything you need from the local home improvement store and the hardest part, I would think, would be the digging.
FYI, he can pull a permit and do the work himself for his own property if he is so inclined.
FYI, he can pull a permit and do the work himself for his own property if he is so inclined.
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Re: need plumbing help/advice....
I have a friend who bought an older home in Austin and ran into the same thing - roots in the drain structure. Quotes were from $3-$5k for replacing the drain line which was around 150 feet long.
In all reality, it can be very hard to dig in certain parts of austin - a backhoe won't get it done, at least without a ram.
In my area, you bring in a rock-saw trencher. I can rent one for 8 hours @ $350. Personally, I'd offer to install the main run of pipe myself - likely plumbers don't have this equipment or mark up the service to get it done. I'd ask the plumber for pipe diameter and specification, indicate where he / she wants it. Only other question might be hitting an underground utility. Plumber does the connection at the house and at the sewer main.
Note, better (less rock) soil - you can rent a ditch-witch chain drive type thing for <$200.
In all reality, it can be very hard to dig in certain parts of austin - a backhoe won't get it done, at least without a ram.
In my area, you bring in a rock-saw trencher. I can rent one for 8 hours @ $350. Personally, I'd offer to install the main run of pipe myself - likely plumbers don't have this equipment or mark up the service to get it done. I'd ask the plumber for pipe diameter and specification, indicate where he / she wants it. Only other question might be hitting an underground utility. Plumber does the connection at the house and at the sewer main.
Note, better (less rock) soil - you can rent a ditch-witch chain drive type thing for <$200.
Last edited by cb1000rider on Tue Nov 11, 2014 4:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: need plumbing help/advice....
I'm assuming his current sewer line is clay pipe hence roots in line. If he/you know where the problem is and it is only a foot or two deep, I would suggest digging only the problem spot and replacing that portion of pipe with PVC. Yes, this is just a temporary fix, but you can do it for less than $100. $4000-$5000 is about average for a full line replacement.
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NRA Life Member & TSRA Member/ Former USAF
Re: need plumbing help/advice....
If the house is that old the sewer line is probably clay tile and not cast iron due to the fact roots are getting in it. If his house is on a slab, then it will be a lot of work to properly tie into the exiting sewer line under the slab. Don't let them just tie in at the edge of the slab. PVC will end his root problems, so if he plans to live there for awhile then it would be in his best interest to do it right.
He might check Craigslist. There are several plumbing companies on there that may be cheaper and can do that job. The main thing is make sure they get the job permitted, inspected and provide a written warranty of their workmanship.
He might check Craigslist. There are several plumbing companies on there that may be cheaper and can do that job. The main thing is make sure they get the job permitted, inspected and provide a written warranty of their workmanship.
Keith
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Texas LTC Instructor, Missouri CCW Instructor, NRA Certified Pistol, Rifle, Shotgun Instructor and RSO, NRA Life Member
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Re: need plumbing help/advice....
Under the Texas Homestead Act, Texas Plumbing License Law and Texas Mechanical License Law, a person who owns, occupies and has homesteaded the home where the work is to be performed is exempted from the requirement of having a licensed person do the work and may do any kind of plumbing or mechanical work on his/her homestead themselves. The work performed by a homeowner requires a permit (when required by Chapter 52 of the Dallas Building Code) and inspection (if required). If no permit or inspection is required, the homeowner is required to comply with the plumbing/mechanical code.
Dig the trench and lay some pipe. It's relatively easy and cheap. Call the municipality they will have record of the city tap location.
Dig the trench and lay some pipe. It's relatively easy and cheap. Call the municipality they will have record of the city tap location.
Re: need plumbing help/advice....
+1 My sewer line project.Chityworker wrote:Under the Texas Homestead Act, Texas Plumbing License Law and Texas Mechanical License Law, a person who owns, occupies and has homesteaded the home where the work is to be performed is exempted from the requirement of having a licensed person do the work and may do any kind of plumbing or mechanical work on his/her homestead themselves. The work performed by a homeowner requires a permit (when required by Chapter 52 of the Dallas Building Code) and inspection (if required). If no permit or inspection is required, the homeowner is required to comply with the plumbing/mechanical code.
Dig the trench and lay some pipe. It's relatively easy and cheap. Call the municipality they will have record of the city tap location.
I'm in Texarkana so city ordinances will be different. Here you only have to have a licensed plumber to connect to the city line. Rent a trencher and lay some PVC. If your line close to the city line is still good, just tie into that. Remember, you'll need a minimum of 1/4" drop per foot for the line to flow correctly.
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Re: need plumbing help/advice....
His house is on pier and beam with a crawlspace and no slab, so that would make it easier. Craigslist might be a good idea, thanks. It occurs to me that maybe he could organize the men of his Life Group and turn it into a working party. I'd do the BBQ to feed the troops.Keith B wrote:If the house is that old the sewer line is probably clay tile and not cast iron due to the fact roots are getting in it. If his house is on a slab, then it will be a lot of work to properly tie into the exiting sewer line under the slab. Don't let them just tie in at the edge of the slab. PVC will end his root problems, so if he plans to live there for awhile then it would be in his best interest to do it right.
He might check Craigslist. There are several plumbing companies on there that may be cheaper and can do that job. The main thing is make sure they get the job permitted, inspected and provide a written warranty of their workmanship.
I had no idea that $3k-$5k is normal for this kind of job.
“Hard times create strong men. Strong men create good times. Good times create weak men. And, weak men create hard times.”
― G. Michael Hopf, "Those Who Remain"
#TINVOWOOT
― G. Michael Hopf, "Those Who Remain"
#TINVOWOOT
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Re: need plumbing help/advice....
Careful with Craigslist. Quite a few people make money off of the unsuspecting... No payments up front - not for "equipment" - not for deposit - nothing... Remember, they can lien your house if you don't pay. If they don't work, it's much harder to do something about it.
I'm in the "dig it yourself" camp....
I'm in the "dig it yourself" camp....
Re: need plumbing help/advice....
I am not a plumber but I have "been there" with my in-law's home. If the dip runs only for a short run of pipe, you can dig it and put a steel sleeve over the pipe. The sleeve we used was stainless steel with some, IIRC, rubber gasket material. It clamped on over the pipe much like the sleeves you may recall being used in submarine movies. You would also want to sleeve the areas where the roots get into the pipe - hopefully the dip and the root intrusion are in the same location. After you have sleeved the pipe pour some loose dry concrete under and over the pipe. A bag or two will do. Then place another bag of concrete 'in the bag' on top of the pipe to prevent roots from getting back into the line. At least that is the way the guys who fixed the in-laws line did it :)
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Re: need plumbing help/advice....
I have run into something similar. Unfortunately I put out about three times as much to have them tunnel under my slab and replace the line which had separated (in two places) due to ground motion, and replace about 50 feet of sewer line. The plumber came out with a camera and showed me the two places where the line had parted and shifted, and of course roots galore. I reluctantly allowed the work to go ahead, and from the 20/20 hindsight view I wish I had not.
BTW the nearest manhole was more than 150 feet away until the recent rebuild of our sewers and water lines this past summer, now there is a manhole right in front of the house.
After my line was replaced we continued to experience the same issues with improper flow, and of course the plumber sent someone out to check things, and then ran a camera down and found another defect a little beyond the end of the repairs under the house, and of course they want a lot of money to fix that. Then on another visit, a different tech came into the house and removed a part from the toilet and declared the problem fixed, and actually all he did was stop the toilet from being a water saving model.
And then after several other visits, and my neighbors experiencing a similar problem (wish we had known before) the city dug up the sewer main in front of our houses, and discovered that the city's line was almost totally clogged with roots.
I am better educated about it now, and plan to invest in my own 100 foot electric snake/cutter before too long.
BTW the nearest manhole was more than 150 feet away until the recent rebuild of our sewers and water lines this past summer, now there is a manhole right in front of the house.
After my line was replaced we continued to experience the same issues with improper flow, and of course the plumber sent someone out to check things, and then ran a camera down and found another defect a little beyond the end of the repairs under the house, and of course they want a lot of money to fix that. Then on another visit, a different tech came into the house and removed a part from the toilet and declared the problem fixed, and actually all he did was stop the toilet from being a water saving model.
And then after several other visits, and my neighbors experiencing a similar problem (wish we had known before) the city dug up the sewer main in front of our houses, and discovered that the city's line was almost totally clogged with roots.
I am better educated about it now, and plan to invest in my own 100 foot electric snake/cutter before too long.
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Re: need plumbing help/advice....
Tam... I grew up in a house built in the 40's, we had the same issues. We dug a hole around the bad section of pipe, removed the roots, wrapped the pipe with a tin can and poured some concrete around the bad section. Never had another issue.