target load vs carry load-If Worse Comes to Worse

[C-dub]

Shoot somebody between the shirt pockets with a FMJ or JHP and the end result will probably be the same. It might take the bad guy a little longer to expire with the FMJ, depending on shot placement.

Now if shooting the shotgun, using a target load/birdshot will not have the same effect as buckshot or a slug. Birdshot is for birds.

Just my .02,
LeonCarr

I bet if they're shot between the pants pockets that would also stop the attack for most.

[C-dub]

Oh, and I'm not going to worry about having enough JHP for the same reasons all ready mentioned plus that the JHP and PD ammo is too expensive to keep too much extra on hand.

[esxmarkc]

But... but... but..... Aren't zombies immune to FMJ bullets? And..... Am I the only one who has silver bullets on hand.....BLESSED SILVER BULLETS!?!?!?

[jmra]

But... but... but..... Aren't zombies immune to FMJ bullets? And..... Am I the only one who has silver bullets on hand.....BLESSED SILVER BULLETS!?!?!?

I have some green bullets (the tips anyway).

[RetNavy]

But... but... but..... Aren't zombies immune to FMJ bullets? And..... Am I the only one who has silver bullets on hand.....BLESSED SILVER BULLETS!?!?!?

as long as you get them in the head it doesn't matter what kind of ammo.... zombies dont care what kills them.... they even like .22's

[Oldgringo]

I imagine if we get to that point any round will be of use.

There it is, right answer! Give Cali a cigar....or something.

[karder]

I only stock a small amount of "self-defense" ammo. I probably have between 50-100 rounds of Gold Dot HP for each of my carry guns. All my stock for any kind of a serious national event is ball ammo. I purchase my ammo during non-crises times so when there is a mass shooting, followed by politicians trying to capitalize and the masses trying to stock up, I avoid the madness. I look for ammo to go on sale, and buy a case for storage here and there. It adds up over time.
I keep a very healthy stock of 5.56X45 and about half as much 7.62X39 and a smaller stock .308. I don't stock much pistol ammo and only keep about 1000 rounds of FMJ in .45, 40, and 9mm as I don't plan on using my pistols too much. All my carry guns have JHP, but during a catastrophic event, I think ball makes more sense both financially and functionally.

[jnichols2]

If worse comes to worse, my Colt AR will be my primary weapon.
All my rounds (soft point, varmint, and NATO FMJ) are devastating.

My pistols will be to get me to the AR. FMJ will work. Especially the .40s and .45s.

[RJGold]

I am in the same boat as others here. I have FMJ rounds in the thousands for each of my defense weapons. I have "self defense" rounds (JHP) for my pistols in the range of 250 each caliber.

If it comes down to my shotgun I am in the thousands of rounds as well in flavors ranging from 7 1/2 dove loads to BB 3 1/2" magnums (steel shot).

Pretty much agree with TAM on this one. If they get in scatter gun range, whatever I can put my hands on first is what's going down range to them.

I'm not going to say how much 22 LR I have for fear of becoming a target!!!

[Abraham]

Hang on.

Silver bullets are for werewolves.

Doesn't matter if they're FMJ's or JHP's as long as they're constructed of silver.

Sheesh, I thought everyone knew that...

[android]

Keep a reasonable supply of both.

Also, if there is a police supply near you that sell to the public, get your JHP there. A box of 50 will cost the same as a box of 20 at the gun store.

GT Distributors is in Austin and DFW area I think.

[Jason K]

OK.....so, if FMJ will do the job in an emergency situation, why won't it do the job any other time? Why buy high-zoot JHP SD ammo at all?

[gljjt]

OK.....so, if FMJ will do the job in an emergency situation, why won't it do the job any other time? Why buy high-zoot JHP SD ammo at all? buy

I think the concept is that in an emergency, well placed FMJ that purchased because you could afford it is better than super duper special edition platinum plated jacketed hollow points you don't have because of cost. Bullet design is important, but is secondary to placement.

Everyone should have enough quality SD rounds for normal times. TEOTWAWKI changes the paradigm.

[The Annoyed Man]

OK.....so, if FMJ will do the job in an emergency situation, why won't it do the job any other time? Why buy high-zoot JHP SD ammo at all? buy

Two reasons: efficiency, and the risks of over-penetration.

FMJs incapacitate or kill primarily by blood loss, unless they hit a vital enough target to instantly turn off the attacker's lights. Shot placement may be king, but in a dynamic situation with an adrenaline dump happening, target accuracy goes out the window, to be replaced with "combat accuracy"......which is why we talk about COM so much. In a live shooting situation, you can't absolutely depend on hitting your attacker's "off-button". Training helps, but that's all it does....help. It's not a guarantee. So as a practical matter, stopping becomes more a matter of causing lots of tissue damage and pain rather than hitting the light switch. FMJs are also more likely to pass right through the body, and that is dangerous to anyone down range from the target whom you would rather not shoot. In a perfect world, there isn't anybody down range from the target; but we know that this is not necessarily true in the real world, even if we can't see them, which is why outdoor shooting ranges are back stopped by earthen berms. If it's indoors, what about innocents on the other side of the wall?

JHPs go a very long way to avoiding over-penetration issues. Also, by virtue of their expanded diameter, they do cause some slight increase in tissue damage and wound channel bleeding....although it is restricted to bleeding out the entrance wound or into the abdominal or chest cavities. Bowel penetrations will also bleed into the bowel tract. They are also more likely to drag foreign debris like clothing fibers etc. into the wound track. They produce a larger temporary stretch cavity. This doesn't actually blow organs apart, but the stretching does cause micro-tearing of the stretched tissues, which leads to greater, more rapid blood loss, some kinds of tissue do not handle bullet shock well at all, particularly heavily vascularized tissues like the liver, which is very frangible and ruptures easily. You can bleed to death fairly quickly from getting hit in the liver. Other organs, including surprisingly the heart itself, will handle a gunshot wound better than the liver will.

For example: If a 9mm FMJ hits the heart, it has a very good chance of passing right through. It will poke a neat hole in the pericardium on entrance and exit, and the holes in the pericardium will seal up, and the heart (being just a muscle, after all) will keep right on pumping with no blood loss into the chest cavity. EVENTUALLY, the person will develop a pericardial tamponade and it will eventually stop his heart and kill him, but not before he has had time to kill you and all of your family, AND make it to the hospital in his own car. Hit the same person in the same place with a modern 9mm JHP SD bullet, and those sharp petals on the expanded bullet will tear a hole in both sides of the pericardium; the pericardium will not seal up, and the person will exsanguinate fairly quickly into his chest cavity. He will begin to feel the onset of loss of blood pressure fairly rapidly, and he will be more likely to be rapidly incapacitated.

All of the above applies regardless of what structures were hit by the bullet. Perhaps the only advantage of an FMJ over a JHP in a SD shooting is the FMJ's superior ability to break bones......but bones are an unreliable target (since you can't actually SEE them,they aren't always where you imagined them to be), and even FMJs can be deflected by bones instead of breaking them.

Since the whole point of shooting someone in self-defense isn't punishment, but rather to stop the attack, it simply makes more sense to use the bullet that will be more efficient in that regard, while reducing the risks to other people whom you might not intend to shoot. That would be the JHP.

My dad shot a Japanese soldier on Iwo Jima in the "stomach" with an FMJ from his 1911 at very close range. When I asked him how the Japanese soldier reacted to being shot, my dad said "he sat down rather abruptly" and didn't move anymore after that. It was after midnight and there was no obviously visible bleeding. Dad had no idea if he had actually killed the man outright or if he was just laying there hoping they would go away. The enemy soldier had stumbled into their position under dark and was surrounded by 7 very frightened and irritated marines in varying states of exhaustion and injury, any one of whom would have probably gladly finished the job if he had moved an inch. There was no profit in firing additional rounds at him as they were trying to get back to American lines without being discovered by anymore Japanese. All I know is that there was no obvious sign that my dad's single 230 grain FMJ had done any damage to him, other than after my dad fired, the man slumped to the ground and leaned back against a hummock they were all hiding behind.

I would use FMJ in a pinch, and I've been gradually acquiring a stockpile of it for if/when "the pinch" comes, but since the demands of concealed carry place limits on what I can reasonably carry on my person, I'd rather depend on SD ammo for carry use because it is more of a sure thing than FMJ. If my carry weapon were an AR15, I wouldn't give it as much thought........although I do keep 55 grain soft points on hand for home defense use.