TSA (or United) Broke Open My Nanovault !!!!

[Vol Texan]

Mods, this could be posted in a number of areas, so please move it if needed.

Sorry for the long explanation, but I've had to write it up in detail for both the TSA and for United, so I had plenty of seed material for this long-winded posting.

Side note, I fly a LOT with United airlines (wish they were still Continental!). I've got several million miles with them and a pretty hefty international travel schedule - and I've checked firearms on several domestic flights in the past with no issues. This time, however, things went very wrong.

On 18 Aug, my family and I were scheduled to return home from Greensboro, SC to Houston, with a brief layover in Chicago. Our first flight was delayed long enough that we would not have made our connection. Given that we had two bags with checked firearms, and we didn’t want to mess with that in the 2nd Amendment-free zone known as Chicago, we opted to remain one more night in Greensboro at the local Marriott, and fly out the next morning on a rescheduled itinerary. We retrieved our checked baggage from the airport.

On the morning of 19 Aug, we checked in at approximately 8am for our 10:12 am flight. This time, we had a connection in Newark, rather than Chicago.
We declared our two bags with firearms.

• One was a hard-sided Pelican-brand case (this had my daughter's Crickett, my Iver Johnson, and my wife's Walther, plus ammo for all three and a few spare mags)
• The second was a soft-sided suitcase with a Nanovault brand single gun case, tethered into the hard structure of the bag by a steel cable. (this had my SigSauer, plus more ammo for my wife's pistol)

We left the firearms declaration inside the Pelican and locked it with non-TSA locks, and we left the firearms declaration inside the soft-sided suitcase (but outside the Nanovault). The Nanovault was combination locked, and the soft-sided suitcase had a TSA lock on it.




In the past, while checking firearms, we’ve had one of two things happen

• In Houston, for example, a dedicated TSA agent comes out to us and inspects the baggage before we closed it up
• In Palm Beach, for example, we remain at the check-in counter until the TSA calls the counter to confirm the bag has been cleared

We asked if we should remain at the check-in counter to await wording from TSA, and we were told "No, there is need to at this airport."

We left the counter, proceeded through the TSA security checkpoint, and entered the secure area of the terminal. Since we had checked in so early, we had plenty of time to have breakfast before boarding.

In Houston, we deplaned and waited for our baggage at the carousel. After three of our four bags arrived, we had a long wait for the fourth one (the Pelican case). The carousel finished once and then started again (presumably with the remainder of the bags from our flight). When it stopped again, all others from our flight were gone, and we were still short the Pelican case with the checked firearms.

I visited the lost baggage office and inquired, and was told, “We have it here for you”.

I asked why they had held it for me, and not provided me the courtesy of letting me know it was taken off.

She explained they took it off because it had firearms in it. (This still does not address the lack of courtesy to the passengers who thought we’d lost a bag for quite a while as the remainder of the passengers left with theirs).

But then, I explained that I had TWO bags with firearms … why hold only this one, but let the other one through?

She explained that this one was the only one they knew of.

AT THIS TIME, BELLS STARTED GOING OFF IN MY HEAD ... how is it that the airline knew one bag had firearms, but not the other one?

I returned to my family with the Pelican, where they were still at the carousel waiting for it, while holding the other bags.

Out of curiosity, I opened the other (soft-sided) bag with a firearm to make sure all was OK. Inside, there was a TSA card inside indicating that my bag had been searched. Below the search notification, I found that the Nanovault had been forcibly opened inside the suitcase, and the locking mechanism was shattered and now unusable.








I returned to the lost baggage office again, and asked them to call a TSA supervisor at once. This was a serious break in procedure, and it left my firearm unsecured for an undetermined length of time. The airline reps were not very friendly at all, but I insisted (and reminded them that I’m one of their Global Services customers, with over 350,000 miles last year alone). I usually don't like to throw in the 'most frequent flyer' attitude with them to get my way, but they were acting VERY unprofessionally and didn't seem to care until I did so.

The supervisor then escorted us up to the departure hall and got a TSA supervisor for us. She remained with us until the TSA supervisor arrived, to make sure we were taken care of.

We met with the TSA supervisor and we explained the issue. She was very concerned, and gave us the information needed to submit a claim to the TSA.

I’ve submitted claims to both the TSA and the airline, and I’ll keep following up with this until I receive full resolution.

My concerns are as follows (everything below is speculation – I’d like to find out what actually happened)

One of several things happened:

• An TSA agent opened our locked gun case without us present and closed it back up inside the suitcase. This could be due to one of multiple reasons:
  • Incompetence
  • Malevolence
  • OR – United never told them there was a gun in the case. This could be suggested by the fact that United ‘knew’ guns were in one case but not the other.
• OR - A United employee opened our locked gun case without us present and closed it back up inside the suitcase.

I tend to think that the first of these is most likely, but I’ll rule nothing out until a full investigation is completed by both the airline and the TSA.

• If it turns out that the first of these two is the case (as I suppose it will), then I wonder which of the stated reasons would be the key driver
• If it turns out that the second of these two is the case – then I expect that the airline will have a swift resolution to this

The biggest issue is that my firearm was made unsecured for an indefinite amount of time. I have no idea how long it was unsecured. Looking at two extreme ends of the spectrum, it could have been:

• Opened and closed right away, never known to be unsecured to anyone else
• Opened and used in the commission of a crime, and then replaced before we boarded our flight (they had approximately a two-hour time gap available to them)

I doubt the second of these is the case, but I'm not willing to absorb that liability, irrespective of the probability.

Bottom line is this: We did the right thing – we declared our firearms and our ammunition according to both TSA regulations and United’s guidelines, and verified it with the check-in counter – and they (someone) violated our trust. Somebody broke procedures in a very serious way, and I’m not happy about it. Nothing was stolen, and everything seems to work OK, but that's not the issue here.

Firearm safety is paramount to my family and me. We don't leave our firearms unsecured so that someone else can use them. They are always in our immediate control, or locked in a secure location. To think that someone (United, TSA, or some combination of the two) had access to one of them is unacceptable, and has potential legal implications. We will not rest until we have uncovered the root cause of this issue, the person(s) responsible are dealt with accordingly, and there is a long paper trail to absolve us of any fault if it was found the firearm was used without our permission.

/ rant off

[tomdavis]

I hope you stay the course and have no doubt you will. Go up the ladder quickly as everyone at the lower levels are only authorized to say "no" and cover. I am sure you know that but want to reinforce it. Please keep us posted as it unfolds.

[C-dub]

That is terrible. I have not flown with any of my firearms and concern over stuff like this is one of the main reasons. I would rather drive if at all possible. I hope they make this right for you.

[jimlongley]

I agree that it is more likely to have been reason one, but "OR – United never told them there was a gun in the case. This could be suggested by the fact that United ‘knew’ guns were in one case but not the other." I do not know of any procedure that the airlines would use to notify TSA that there were firearms in checked bags. There is not supposed to be ANY external marking identifying a bag with a checked firearm.

Also, it is not TSA's job to investigate firearms in checked bags, declared or not.

I suspect there is a very crooked person involved.

[LDB415]

I imagine you've already done so and I'll be interested to hear Jeff Smisek's reply to your correspondence with him. I'm sure we'll all be interested to hear updates as things progress. Good luck with it.

[Vol Texan]

I imagine you've already done so and I'll be interested to hear Jeff Smisek's reply to your correspondence with him. I'm sure we'll all be interested to hear updates as things progress. Good luck with it.

Yes, I have his direct contact info. I don't use it often, but when I do, I do get a non-canned response from one of his lackeys, or from him directly. That's one of the benefits of spending so much $$ per year with them, I guess.

My 9 emails (one with text, and the other 8 with photos) have hit his desk as well. I wonder if I'll get a personal response this time, or one of his staff?

[Vol Texan]

I agree that it is more likely to have been reason one, but "OR – United never told them there was a gun in the case. This could be suggested by the fact that United ‘knew’ guns were in one case but not the other." I do not know of any procedure that the airlines would use to notify TSA that there were firearms in checked bags. There is not supposed to be ANY external marking identifying a bag with a checked firearm.

True, but in West Palm, the TSA always calls the check-in counter when the bag is cleared. I'm not sure what happens or doesn't happen behind the curtain, but something fishy happened here.

[Jim Beaux]

One of several things happened:

• An TSA agent opened our locked gun case without us present and closed it back up inside the suitcase. This could be due to one of multiple reasons:
  • Incompetence
    Malevolence
  • OR – United never told them there was a gun in the case. This could be suggested by the fact that United ‘knew’ guns were in one case but not the other.
• OR - A United employee opened our locked gun case without us present and closed it back up inside the suitcase.

/ rant off

Arrogance
Disrespect

Familiarity breeds contempt; and the fact that we must submit to allowing TSA to touch us gives them a sense of power. Violating our rights is routine and they disdainfully view us not as people, but as malcontent objects who interfere with their pursuit of mediocrity.

I hope you find an answer. Keep us updated, but I suspect this thing is going to be buried under a lot of bureaucratic camouflage.

[Keith B]

Sorry you are having to deal with this. I had TSA open my back and damage some stuff without tagging the bag. TSA blamed airline and vice versa, but pretty sure it was TSA.

Hope they make it right and dig in deep enough to figure out if there was some type of illegal activity going on. At minimum they need to identify who touched your bags and run them through an interrogation.

Now, to add a little levity since it was possibly United people that did it, don't feel like the Lone Ranger as they also break other things

[video][/video]

[LAYGO]

This makes me question the security of the lock on these. It seems like a swift conk with a hammer on the locking knob would break it & render it useless. :\ This is exactly what I have in my car.

[Keith B]

This makes me question the security of the lock on these. It seems like a swift conk with a hammer on the locking knob would break it & render it useless. :\ This is exactly what I have in my car.

I have two Nanovault's with combination locks. I bought one of them with a latch that was not operating properly at a gun show. A large screwdriver was easily able to override the latch and bend the metal enough to get open within a couple of minutes without doing any permanent damage to the box. I repaired the latch and use to in my vehicle today. The best they will do is slow someone down a little. If you yank on the box hard enough I think you would be able to bend the metal to the point the cable will come out of it and they can take box and all.

In the end, if someone wants something bad enough, they will figure out a way to get it.

[VMI77]

Regardless of which agency broke the case open you're lucky the guns were still in the case when you got it.

[jimlongley]

I agree that it is more likely to have been reason one, but "OR – United never told them there was a gun in the case. This could be suggested by the fact that United ‘knew’ guns were in one case but not the other." I do not know of any procedure that the airlines would use to notify TSA that there were firearms in checked bags. There is not supposed to be ANY external marking identifying a bag with a checked firearm.

True, but in West Palm, the TSA always calls the check-in counter when the bag is cleared. I'm not sure what happens or doesn't happen behind the curtain, but something fishy happened here.

Years ago, when I was first with TSA, the ticket agents would send people to accompany their bags if they had checked firearms, and we would call the ticket counter (we knew which agent did the check in) if we found one with a firearm we hadn't been notified about. Eventually TSA HQ came down with a nationwide edict that said we were not to do this anymore, we were not tasked to find firearms and we were only to do something about firearms in checked bags if:

A) They were obviously loaded, or;
B) They were obviously unsecured, ie floating loose in the bag (not illegal in hard sided bags), and;

We were not to break locks until and unless the passenger whose bag it was could not be located.

[n5wd]

Just to clarify, Vol Texan... Was there anything missing from the broken-into bag?