Another Dog Bites the Dust

[mojo84]

Another question I have is why did the officers think it a good idea to clean up the blood and remove the body of the dog prior to an investigation being done? Did they or someone take pictures and document the seen our is it just the cop's word against a dead 's and his owner?

[EEllis]

While it may not be conclusive at this point, hip dysplasia is definitely a major factor as to whether it was reasonable to think the dog was a threat. I've had two dogs (both German Shepherds) that had this common big dog malady. When symptoms first appeared, the dogs could pretty much move normally. As it progressed, they were like old men/women with severe arthritis. Getting up was a slow and painful process and running was a thing of the past. Through it all however, they would still bark and could sound menacing. If this dog was in an advanced stage of the disease, he would have done little more than lay on his bed and bark, possibly rising up on his front legs but not getting up, at least not quickly. Even at the moderate stage, the dog would not have been capable of sudden movements. There's no clear evidence if the dog was already standing when the officers came in, but bullet holes in the futon he used as a bed is an indication he was laying down. If the alarm was still sounding when they arrived and if the dog was laying in his bed, then it is an indication the hip dysplasia was more advanced.

This case is significantly different from others that have been in the news. LEOs were answering a burglar alarm call undoubtedly thinking it was another of the 99% that are false alarms. Upon arriving, they probably saw an open door and that changed the nature of the call significantly. If this were the only case reported, I don't think most people would questions the officers' action. However, it's not the first case, it's just the latest of many reported dog shootings and that is what I think has people so upset.

Chas.

Being a progressive disease it really is all about how badly the dog was effected which, at this time, we don't know so I really don't think it plays much part in my current evaluation. I get that the futon was shot but since it was in a room at the end of a hall any shot fired down the hall would of had a good chance of hitting the futon. From the TV news if the dog did get up and charge after the officer made the corner than hitting the futon would be reasonable and fit that story. While the department cleaned up the blood the video did do a close up of the whole and you didn't see blood so it doesn't appear like it a bullet that passed thru the dog as it was lying there.

I do think that often police shootings of pets are unnecessary. I think a good example is Austin where after repeated incidents the dept mandated that all pet shootings be investigated instead of just investigated when the supervisor thought necessary. Hopefully I'm describing the change accurately, but the number of shootings dropped significantly right after. They weren't finding that massive numbers of shootings were bad or anything. Not handing out discipline for shooting. Just the extra paperwork and scrutiny made officers be a bit more judicious in their application of force. So obviously before there were large numbers of pet shootings that didn't need to happen. That being the case I'm still not going to call out someone as guilty because of separate events with no evidence of any direct misconduct.

[EEllis]

Another question I have is why did the officers think it a good idea to clean up the blood and remove the body of the dog prior to an investigation being done? Did they or someone take pictures and document the seen our is it just the cop's word against a dead 's and his owner?

Maybe they were just trying to minimize the trauma and not leave a dead dog and bloody mess there to freak out the owner? The story claims the dept is investigating the shooting so lets hope they did take pics because without it the statement would be an obvious farce.

[EEllis]

If the dog was charging, I doubt he would have been close enough to his bed for their to be bullet holes in his bed.

I chose take the word of the lady that owns the home until she is proven wrong or lying. I have no reason to believe the dog was aggressive, charging or a threat to the officers.

If a cop has a dog phobia, he needs to be assigned to a safe desk job or find another career. Putting a scared cop on the streets is akin to hiring a highrise window washer that is afraid of heights. Come to think of it, I'm afraid of heights and I've never applied for a highrise window washing or skyscraper iron worker. Go figure.

Well the woman didn't see anything so .... And the bed was in view directly down the hall. Look down the hall and there is the bed just past the door to the room. It would of been in a direct line if the dog charged down the hall at someone. I don't think the woman is lying I just don't hold up her analysis of events as necessary being correct. And as to the scared of dogs thing, I never mentioned it.

[EEllis]

What bugs me is the apparent lack of critical thinking ability and observational skills on the part of the officers here. If the dog is such an apparent threat, and it's fine and dandy until unknown strangers (the cops) enter the house, then there's not anyone else in the house, or at least no one else that doesn't belong there. If there was anyone there, then the dog took care of them, and the officers don't need to immediately clear the house. If the dog has problems moving, then it's not a major threat, and the officers can (carefully) clear the house to make sure there's no burglar.

When did reasoning skills become obsolete for law enforcement? It has to have been sometime in the 6 1/2 years since I graduated the Academy, because I sure as heck needed them to pass.

Your point requires the assumption that the officers knew the dog was there and was safe in the back napping. I believe if they knew those facts then they would of made other choices so your comment, to me, is off point.

[mojo84]

Just the extra paperwork and scrutiny made officers be a bit more judicious in their application of force.

If extra paperwork proves a suffient deterrent, then the dogs shouldn't have been shot in the first place. If fewer dogs have been shoot and the number of cops being bitten has not risen, then the cops were wrong in shooting them in the first place. Thank you for proving my point.

I'm off to do something productive now.

[Jim Beaux]

While it may not be conclusive at this point, hip dysplasia is definitely a major factor as to whether it was reasonable to think the dog was a threat. I've had two dogs (both German Shepherds) that had this common big dog malady. When symptoms first appeared, the dogs could pretty much move normally. As it progressed, they were like old men/women with severe arthritis. Getting up was a slow and painful process and running was a thing of the past. Through it all however, they would still bark and could sound menacing. If this dog was in an advanced stage of the disease, he would have done little more than lay on his bed and bark, possibly rising up on his front legs but not getting up, at least not quickly. Even at the moderate stage, the dog would not have been capable of sudden movements. There's no clear evidence if the dog was already standing when the officers came in, but bullet holes in the futon he used as a bed is an indication he was laying down. If the alarm was still sounding when they arrived and if the dog was laying in his bed, then it is an indication the hip dysplasia was more advanced.

This case is significantly different from others that have been in the news. LEOs were answering a burglar alarm call undoubtedly thinking it was another of the 99% that are false alarms. Upon arriving, they probably saw an open door and that changed the nature of the call significantly. If this were the only case reported, I don't think most people would questions the officers' action. However, it's not the first case, it's just the latest of many reported dog shootings and that is what I think has people so upset.

Chas.

Good point. The average age of a Rotty is 8 - 11 years old; so at age 8, this dog was no spring chicken and with hip dysplasia he was probably very slow. As Rottys are known to be calm and friendly, the issue of 7 shoots is puzzling.

Maybe the house was dark and the LEO was startled and quickly reacted when he heard a low growl (it's been my experience that a Rotty will growl rather than bark). As rotty's are typically calm, this one may have just quietly walk up and startled the LEO in close quarters....The situation was dynamically loaded.... anxious, dark room, low guttural growl, dark silhouette, adrenaline, fire until the threat has been neutralized.

[Abraham]

Here's my input: I'm attacked almost every time I cycle in the country. Usually 25 plus miles...

I ALWAYS carry.

I also carry pepper spray.

I've NEVER shot a dog.

When attacked, often by multiple dogs, I spray them.

End of attack.

I'm a giving LEO advocate, but this has to stop...

[VoiceofReason]

I don’t believe we have enough information to judge this one way or another. Was there a sign on the door or a window notifying people about the presence of a dog? If not, maybe there should be.

“Lane said 8-year-old Bullet, who suffered from hip dysplasia, is not aggressive.”

I don’t believe I would give a statement like this much credence. As I stated in another thread, a dog owner told me two or three times her dog wouldn’t bite after it bit me which she didn’t see.

The dog may have a problem walking normally but if it felt threatened, could it have possibly moved faster temporarily?

We don’t know if a reasonable person would have believed they were in danger of serious bodily injury because we were not there and are trying to pass judgment from a news story.

I am one that can tell you for a fact the news media can get a story messed up beyond recognition.

Question: Can a police officer sue a homeowner if bitten by the homeowners dog?

[EEllis]

Just the extra paperwork and scrutiny made officers be a bit more judicious in their application of force.

If extra paperwork proves a suffient deterrent, then the dogs shouldn't have been shot in the first place. If fewer dogs have been shoot and the number of cops being bitten has not risen, then the cops were wrong in shooting them in the first place. Thank you for proving my point.

I'm off to do something productive now.

Prove your point? I stated that point and have done so on other threads previously. I do not know if there was a change to the number of bites though. That would be interesting to find out. It also should be noted that the Austin policy change was pretty recent. If I remember correctly I saw where Houston P D had 150+ bites in a 3 year period that needed medical attention.

[EEllis]

Question: Can a police officer sue a homeowner if bitten by the homeowners dog?

Yes. Now plenty of factors go into play including if they win they likely have to repay any benefits received from insurance or department.

[VMI77]

I don’t believe we have enough information to judge this one way or another. Was there a sign on the door or a window notifying people about the presence of a dog? If not, maybe there should be.

“Lane said 8-year-old Bullet, who suffered from hip dysplasia, is not aggressive.”

I don’t believe I would give a statement like this much credence. As I stated in another thread, a dog owner told me two or three times her dog wouldn’t bite after it bit me which she didn’t see.

The dog may have a problem walking normally but if it felt threatened, could it have possibly moved faster temporarily?

We don’t know if a reasonable person would have believed they were in danger of serious bodily injury because we were not there and are trying to pass judgment from a news story.

I am one that can tell you for a fact the news media can get a story messed up beyond recognition.

Question: Can a police officer sue a homeowner if bitten by the homeowners dog?

Not likely in my opinion, having had a German Shepherd and a Great Dane with this condition. Of course it depends on how advanced the displasia is, but both of our dogs went from falling down or falling back occassionally, to about half the time, and after awhile, couldn't get up or walk at all. We had to get a sling for their back hips and hold their hips up so they could move. Once they were down they could not get up at all without assistance.

[EEllis]

Not likely in my opinion, having had a German Shepherd and a Great Dane with this condition. Of course it depends on how advanced the displasia is, but both of our dogs went from falling down or falling back occassionally, to about half the time, and after awhile, couldn't get up or walk at all. We had to get a sling for their back hips and hold their hips up so they could move. Once they were down they could not get up at all without assistance.

It's a bit like saying someone has arthritis and then assuming they can't walk. Specifically here I would say that if the dogs condition is that bad it is strange that his bed was a raised futon that the dog would of have to of climbed or jumped up on. The dog is 8 so he wasn't a spring chicken but it's not ancient either.

[SewTexas]

Not likely in my opinion, having had a German Shepherd and a Great Dane with this condition. Of course it depends on how advanced the displasia is, but both of our dogs went from falling down or falling back occassionally, to about half the time, and after awhile, couldn't get up or walk at all. We had to get a sling for their back hips and hold their hips up so they could move. Once they were down they could not get up at all without assistance.

It's a bit like saying someone has arthritis and then assuming they can't walk. Specifically here I would say that if the dogs condition is that bad it is strange that his bed was a raised futon that the dog would of have to of climbed or jumped up on. The dog is 8 so he wasn't a spring chicken but it's not ancient either.

I don't see where it says it's a raised futon, it just says "futon" could be a futon mattress that they used, it's not clear.

I won't comment on the rest, I think it's all been hashed out and I just don't feel like getting into an argument.

[EEllis]

I don't see where it says it's a raised futon, it just says "futon" could be a futon mattress that they used, it's not clear.

I won't comment on the rest, I think it's all been hashed out and I just don't feel like getting into an argument.

They showed it on the news report, think couch not mat.