Another Dog Bites the Dust

[EEllis]

The problem EEllis, is the mentality that every problem needs to be handled at gun point.
They could have tazed it, they could have used their spray, or they could have backed out. Instead they shot it.

Honestly you don't know that they could of done any of that. I don't know what those officers carry do you? Often if they carry one item they won't carry the other. Tasers are designed for people not dogs. They have a vertical spread for people that are standing. Shooting at a dog that is horizontal is not ideal. Pepper spray doesn't have consistent effect on all people never mind dogs. Then if they had their guns out they would of had to transition from their guns to the spray/taser and if they had that time they should of just left. We don't know that they could of gotten out before the dog would have been able to attack. Maybe at the end we will know and I will also think the officers shouldn't of shot the dog but right now I can't say that.

[EEllis]

In which of your law books did you learn the legal term "regardless"?

The dog had hip dysplasia and was shot on or near its bed. Doesn't sound like a charging aggressive threat to me. Like I said earlier, I could probably overlook some of these incidents if it wasn't so common. It's too common and I know too many cops' attitudes about how shooting an animal is no big deal.

"irregardless" While not in common use is a word. Not my fault if you don't know that and it wasn't be used as a legal term. I didn't see the info you post in the original source but not sure it proves anything, or really even makes it more likely.

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/irregardless
"Irregardless originated in dialectal American speech in the early 20th century. Its fairly widespread use in speech called it to the attention of usage commentators as early as 1927. The most frequently repeated remark about it is that “there is no such word.” There is such a word, however. It is still used primarily in speech, although it can be found from time to time in edited prose. Its reputation has not risen over the years, and it is still a long way from general acceptance. Use regardless instead."

I get we disagree and you guys seem to get worked up over it but can we please stop with the petty off topic bull? "There is such a word" and I don't really care if it is popular.

[Charles L. Cotton]

Get back on topic.

Chas.

[EEllis]

I think it says a lot that you jump in and argue against people's opinions without even reading the articles. Here you go.

you are correct the article does have the owner mentioning hip dysplasia. But as I said I don't think it proves anything or even makes one thing more likely.

[mamabearCali]

EEllis, you are a resident police apologist. That is fine. Does not bother me, we all have our perspectives. I am likely becoming known as an OC apologist of late. So respectfully I know I won't convince you, what I write is not for your benefit.

These situations are becoming everyday. Look I understand sometimes it is unavoidable, but if shooting a dog is the first instinct of a LEO to a barking dog that person has no place being a LEO. If you cannot handle the stress of an irritated dog I do not trust you with dealing with a belligerent teen without resorting to violence. The level of disregard for the value of life even that of a dog has become disturbing.

[jmra]

...if shooting a dog is the first instinct of a LEO to a barking dog that person has no place being a LEO. If you cannot handle the stress of an irritated dog I do not trust you with dealing with a belligerent teen without resorting to violence. The level of disregard for the value of life even that of a dog has become disturbing.

100%

[mamabearCali]

...if shooting a dog is the first instinct of a LEO to a barking dog that person has no place being a LEO. If you cannot handle the stress of an irritated dog I do not trust you with dealing with a belligerent teen without resorting to violence. The level of disregard for the value of life even that of a dog has become disturbing.

100%

Ah see we do agree on somethings.

[jmra]

...if shooting a dog is the first instinct of a LEO to a barking dog that person has no place being a LEO. If you cannot handle the stress of an irritated dog I do not trust you with dealing with a belligerent teen without resorting to violence. The level of disregard for the value of life even that of a dog has become disturbing.

100%

Ah see we do agree on somethings.

Most things I think.

[EEllis]

EEllis, you are a resident police apologist. That is fine. Does not bother me, we all have our perspectives. I am likely becoming known as an OC apologist of late. So respectfully I know I won't convince you, what I write is not for your benefit.

These situations are becoming everyday. Look I understand sometimes it is unavoidable, but if shooting a dog is the first instinct of a LEO to a barking dog that person has no place being a LEO. If you cannot handle the stress of an irritated dog I do not trust you with dealing with a belligerent teen without resorting to violence. The level of disregard for the value of life even that of a dog has become disturbing.

I admit I have a high standard before placing blame. I don't think that means I'm a "police apologist". I also think that many use that term as an insult and as a way of ignoring statements made by that person. It is a personal comment and has nothing to do with any points made. As to your comments. You say "barking dog" when it is more likely that it was a charging 120lb rott. See the difference? They didn't shoot thru a fence they were in a confined space with the dog. For all we know the dog was still sleeping when they shot it but it's funny how you frame it as just a barking dog. Not everyone places the same value on pets as you. Many officers are unwilling to get even a small nip before shooting others wouldn't shoot unless their lives depend on it. Peoples background play a large roll in what importance they place on pets and it doesn't equate to automatic lack of concern of human life.

[Keith B]

Unless you don't want police to enter homes when they find an open door during an alarm response I'm not sure where the criticism is coming from. You have a very large dog of a known aggressive breed. The cops were in it's house when no one else was home. I have a hard time believing the dog wouldn't be aggressive in that situation. If a dog like that did bite it would normally be a pretty serious injury. If they had know a rott was inside then I do believe they should of taken a different approach but roasting cops for every shooting irregardless of facts is wrong.

I do not want police entering my home at all unless I have advised them there is a potential hostage situation. If my family is not there, my dog will be hiding from the sound of the siren, and there is no reason for them to enter the home, especially if there is no sign of forced entry. Once I have made it to the house I will make the call of them entering or not.

I worked a LOT of burgular alarm calls, and we never entered without the consent of the owner. 98% of the time they were false or accidentally triggered by a homeowner or someone at the buisness. >1% was no one there on a break-in, and <1% was the one time we found someone in the business and the owner had given us permission to enter over the phone.

[Charles L. Cotton]

I think it says a lot that you jump in and argue against people's opinions without even reading the articles. Here you go.

you are correct the article does have the owner mentioning hip dysplasia. But as I said I don't think it proves anything or even makes one thing more likely.

While it may not be conclusive at this point, hip dysplasia is definitely a major factor as to whether it was reasonable to think the dog was a threat. I've had two dogs (both German Shepherds) that had this common big dog malady. When symptoms first appeared, the dogs could pretty much move normally. As it progressed, they were like old men/women with severe arthritis. Getting up was a slow and painful process and running was a thing of the past. Through it all however, they would still bark and could sound menacing. If this dog was in an advanced stage of the disease, he would have done little more than lay on his bed and bark, possibly rising up on his front legs but not getting up, at least not quickly. Even at the moderate stage, the dog would not have been capable of sudden movements. There's no clear evidence if the dog was already standing when the officers came in, but bullet holes in the futon he used as a bed is an indication he was laying down. If the alarm was still sounding when they arrived and if the dog was laying in his bed, then it is an indication the hip dysplasia was more advanced.

This case is significantly different from others that have been in the news. LEOs were answering a burglar alarm call undoubtedly thinking it was another of the 99% that are false alarms. Upon arriving, they probably saw an open door and that changed the nature of the call significantly. If this were the only case reported, I don't think most people would questions the officers' action. However, it's not the first case, it's just the latest of many reported dog shootings and that is what I think has people so upset.

Chas.

[EEllis]

I do not want police entering my home at all unless I have advised them there is a potential hostage situation. If my family is not there, my dog will be hiding from the sound of the siren, and there is no reason for them to enter the home, especially if there is no sign of forced entry. Once I have made it to the house I will make the call of them entering or not.

I worked a LOT of burgular alarm calls, and we never entered without the consent of the owner. 98% of the time they were false or accidentally triggered by a homeowner or someone at the buisness. >1% was no one there on a break-in, and <1% was the one time we found someone in the business and the owner had given us permission to enter over the phone.

I get that. There is a lot of risk in entry under those conditions. Heck as bad as it is being a dog that got shot what if it was just a kid playing hooky who came around a corner with something in their hand? That to me was the standout point and the biggest factor in this incident. You set up this situation, cops entering unknow homes, you will have negative results. Somehow I doubt the cops are thrilled with making entry in these situations either. I honestly think that most incidents that have a negative outcome, in this type of situation, are due to that situation not misconduct by police.

[mojo84]

EEllis, you are a resident police apologist. That is fine. Does not bother me, we all have our perspectives. I am likely becoming known as an OC apologist of late. So respectfully I know I won't convince you, what I write is not for your benefit.

These situations are becoming everyday. Look I understand sometimes it is unavoidable, but if shooting a dog is the first instinct of a LEO to a barking dog that person has no place being a LEO. If you cannot handle the stress of an irritated dog I do not trust you with dealing with a belligerent teen without resorting to violence. The level of disregard for the value of life even that of a dog has become disturbing.

I admit I have a high standard before placing blame. I don't think that means I'm a "police apologist". I also think that many use that term as an insult and as a way of ignoring statements made by that person. It is a personal comment and has nothing to do with any points made. As to your comments. You say "barking dog" when it is more likely that it was a charging 120lb rott. See the difference? They didn't shoot thru a fence they were in a confined space with the dog. For all we know the dog was still sleeping when they shot it but it's funny how you frame it as just a barking dog. Not everyone places the same value on pets as you. Many officers are unwilling to get even a small nip before shooting others wouldn't shoot unless their lives depend on it. Peoples background play a large roll in what importance they place on pets and it doesn't equate to automatic lack of concern of human life.

If the dog was charging, I doubt he would have been close enough to his bed for their to be bullet holes in his bed.

I chose take the word of the lady that owns the home until she is proven wrong or lying. I have no reason to believe the dog was aggressive, charging or a threat to the officers.

If a cop has a dog phobia, he needs to be assigned to a safe desk job or find another career. Putting a scared cop on the streets is akin to hiring a highrise window washer that is afraid of heights. Come to think of it, I'm afraid of heights and I've never applied for a highrise window washing or skyscraper iron worker. Go figure.

[JSThane]

What bugs me is the apparent lack of critical thinking ability and observational skills on the part of the officers here. If the dog is such an apparent threat, and it's fine and dandy until unknown strangers (the cops) enter the house, then there's not anyone else in the house, or at least no one else that doesn't belong there. If there was anyone there, then the dog took care of them, and the officers don't need to immediately clear the house. If the dog has problems moving, then it's not a major threat, and the officers can (carefully) clear the house to make sure there's no burglar.

When did reasoning skills become obsolete for law enforcement? It has to have been sometime in the 6 1/2 years since I graduated the Academy, because I sure as heck needed them to pass.

[mojo84]

I think it says a lot that you jump in and argue against people's opinions without even reading the articles. Here you go.

you are correct the article does have the owner mentioning hip dysplasia. But as I said I don't think it proves anything or even makes one thing more likely.

While it may not be conclusive at this point, hip dysplasia is definitely a major factor as to whether it was reasonable to think the dog was a threat. I've had two dogs (both German Shepherds) that had this common big dog malady. When symptoms first appeared, the dogs could pretty much move normally. As it progressed, they were like old men/women with severe arthritis. Getting up was a slow and painful process and running was a thing of the past. Through it all however, they would still bark and could sound menacing. If this dog was in an advanced stage of the disease, he would have done little more than lay on his bed and bark, possibly rising up on his front legs but not getting up, at least not quickly. Even at the moderate stage, the dog would not have been capable of sudden movements. There's no clear evidence if the dog was already standing when the officers came in, but bullet holes in the futon he used as a bed is an indication he was laying down. If the alarm was still sounding when they arrived and if the dog was laying in his bed, then it is an indication the hip dysplasia was more advanced.

This case is significantly different from others that have been in the news. LEOs were answering a burglar alarm call undoubtedly thinking it was another of the 99% that are false alarms. Upon arriving, they probably saw an open door and that changed the nature of the call significantly. If this were the only case reported, I don't think most people would questions the officers' action. However, it's not the first case, it's just the latest of many reported dog shootings and that is what I think has people so upset.

Chas.

Exactly!

My twelve year old lab takes about two to four seconds to get up from laying down. Closer to two or three if I tell her it's time for dinner or someone comes to the door. Closer to three to four if not excited. Running, well that's out of the question and we don't know if she has hip dysplacia or just arthritis. However, she will bark like crazy if she perceived one as a threat or person of bad character.