Criminal Propensity (Split from Crime Stats thread)

[MaxBerlin]

The only time I've seen such widely spread difference between groups that commit crimes and those that don't is from the Federal Bureau of Prisons Study on Religiosity which found that atheists were among the least likely groups to be in prison by both population and percentage.

So basically, an atheist with a gun is about the most law abiding person out there.

And it turns out Christians often invoke god for their right to commit crimes.

" The authors surveyed 48 “hardcore street offenders” in and around Atlanta, in hopes of determining what effect, if any, religion has on their behavior. While the vast majority of those surveyed (45 out of 48 people) claimed to be religious, the authors found that the interviewees “seemed to go out of their way to reconcile their belief in God with their serious predatory offending. They frequently employed elaborate and creative rationalizations in the process and actively exploit religious doctrine to justify their crimes.”

[baldeagle]

The only time I've seen such widely spread difference between groups that commit crimes and those that don't is from the Federal Bureau of Prisons Study on Religiosity which found that atheists were among the least likely groups to be in prison by both population and percentage.

So basically, an atheist with a gun is about the most law abiding person out there.

And it turns out Christians often invoke god for their right to commit crimes.

" The authors surveyed 48 “hardcore street offenders” in and around Atlanta, in hopes of determining what effect, if any, religion has on their behavior. While the vast majority of those surveyed (45 out of 48 people) claimed to be religious, the authors found that the interviewees “seemed to go out of their way to reconcile their belief in God with their serious predatory offending. They frequently employed elaborate and creative rationalizations in the process and actively exploit religious doctrine to justify their crimes.”

Somehow I think a convicted criminal might not be the best individual to represent Christians. But you really shouldn't have hijacked this thread to post something that isn't allowed here. http://texaschlforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=10341" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; "Absolutely no discussions of religion"

[RogueUSMC]

When a man is getting better he understands more and more clearly the evil that is still left in him. When a man is getting worse he understands his own badness less and less. A moderately bad man knows he is not very good: a thoroughly bad man thinks he is all right. This is common sense, really. You understand sleep when you are awake, not while you are sleeping. You can see mistakes in arithmetic when your mind is working properly: while you are making them you cannot see them. You can understand the nature of drunkenness when you are sober, not when you are drunk. Good people know about both good and evil: bad people do not know about either.
- C.S. Lewis Mere Christianity

[Charles L. Cotton]

" The authors surveyed 48 “hardcore street offenders” in and around Atlanta, in hopes of determining what effect, if any, religion has on their behavior.

Their total study cohort was 48 people!!?

I would have had a field day cross-examining anyone who tied to use this "study" in a trial.

Chas.

[baldeagle]

I would caution jumping to any useful conclusions from a study such as this.

First of all, many interviewees had only a vague notion of the central tenets of their faiths. Take, for example, an 18-year-old robber whose “street name” was Que:

Que: I believe in God and the Bible and stuff. I believe in Christmas, and uh, you know the commitments and what not.
Int: You mean the Commandments?
Que: Yeah that. I believe in that.
Int: Can you name any of them?
Que: Ahhh … well, I don’t know … like don’t steal, and uh, don’t cheat and _______ like that. Uhmm … I can’t remember the rest.

http://www.slate.com/blogs/crime/2013/0 ... inals.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

That's not a study. It's a joke.

[jmra]

So if I interviewed 48 people with cancer and 45 of them claimed to be religious, does that mean religious people are more likely to have cancer?
I can't believe this got published and it tells you a lot about "studies".

[Keith B]

I've seen a lot of people who got religious really quick once they found out they were getting arrested and going to prison.

[puma guy]

Reminds me of the old commercial "9 out of 10 dentists recommend chewing "XXX" gum!". They don't tell you they interviewed hundreds, maybe thousands, until they got the statistic they wanted from 10 dentist.

[jmra]

The only time I've seen such widely spread difference between groups that commit crimes and those that don't is from the Federal Bureau of Prisons Study on Religiosity which found that atheists were among the least likely groups to be in prison by both population and percentage.

So basically, an atheist with a gun is about the most law abiding person out there.

And it turns out Christians often invoke god for their right to commit crimes.

" The authors surveyed 48 “hardcore street offenders” in and around Atlanta, in hopes of determining what effect, if any, religion has on their behavior. While the vast majority of those surveyed (45 out of 48 people) claimed to be religious, the authors found that the interviewees “seemed to go out of their way to reconcile their belief in God with their serious predatory offending. They frequently employed elaborate and creative rationalizations in the process and actively exploit religious doctrine to justify their crimes.”

Edited: found the answers to my questions by reading the actual study which by the way was not a FPB study.

[Keith B]

Typical troll paraphrase. This is ALSO from the article:

A couple points. First, this is a really small sample size, and it’s possible that if the authors had surveyed more people over a broader geographical area, their results would have been different. Second, as the authors themselves acknowledge, criminals certainly aren’t the only ones who tend to misunderstand religious teachings, or to contort them for their own benefit. Granted, there aren’t usually violent consequences when your Aunt Sue misunderstands something in the Bible; the worst that happens is that she’s just a little more unbearable at Thanksgiving dinner. But, still, the Theoretical Criminology study shouldn’t be interpreted as conclusive evidence that faith-based outreach and rehabilitation programs are worthless.

http://www.slate.com/blogs/crime/2013/0 ... inals.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[jmra]

It doesn't appear to me that this is a study by the Federal Bureau of Prisons at all. Rather a study done by Volkan Topalli,Timothy Brezina and Mindy Bernhardt from Georgia State University.
http://tcr.sagepub.com/content/17/1/49.full.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The only part of this which appears to come from a FBP study is this quote:
As a 2006 Federal Bureau of Prisons report put it, “faith groups have become involved in offering formal programs within prison to bring about not only the spiritual salvation of the inmates but their rehabilitation in the profane world as well.”

A little about the participants:
Our sample of 48 participants was comprised entirely of African Americans, with an average age of 26, and included six females. Our recruiter (an African American male) is a seasoned veteran of Atlanta’s criminal underworld. Now in his early 40s, he participated in a variety of criminal activities throughout his teens, 20s, and 30s.

The participants were paid to answer questions. The recruiter was also paid a referral fee for each successful interview.

[The Annoyed Man]

I note that MaxBerlin has not returned to defend this piece of intellectual malpractice. Uncle Screwtape has instructed his nephew Wormwood well in the matter of his "patient".

[jmra]

The study's conclusion:
"Finally, the results of this study may help to explain the inconsistent results that have been produced by past research, with some studies finding an inhibiting effect of religious belief on crime and others finding no effect (see Baier and Wright, 2001). If, as we have argued, religious belief deters crime for most people, but facilitates criminal conduct for certain subgroups, then such mixed results would not be surprising. Offenders operate within a context very different from those in mainstream society. Their willingness and desire to offend is embedded within ongoing lifestyles that must maintain a certain amount of practicality within such contexts. When seemingly conflicting or incongruous social and cultural information associated with the larger culture (such as religious doctrine advocating prosocial behavior) enters into the picture, such information must either be actively ignored or somehow integrated into the offender’s decision-making processes so as to not impede the criminal functionality of said lifestyles. In the present case, we find that offenders have a propensity to co-opt religious doctrine to permit and even encourage their criminal activity, thereby preserving their identity as criminals and maintaining their ability to pursue illicit action."

I don't see how this supports the OPs stance at all.

[jmra]

So basically, an atheist with a gun is about the most law abiding person out there.

Your conclusion is absolutely incorrect. According to a recent pew poll less than 2% of the US population claims to be atheist and almost all of that 2% is white or Asian. So in a study composed only of African American participants (from the Bible Belt) we should statistically see 0% atheist. Instead we have 3 of the 48 participants claiming to be atheist which is over 6%. This is a huge statistical anomaly which suggest the exact opposite of your conclusion - a conclusion that is not even remotely suggested by those performing the study.

[karder]

I've seen a lot of people who got religious really quick once they found out they were getting arrested and going to prison.

Yup. As my friend likes to say "No man is an atheist when he's taking fire. Guys get real spiritual while waiting for air support". The prison system is full of guys who have "changed". Statistics and polls can be manipulated to say anything.