Not a Good LEO Encounter

Most CHL/LEO contacts are positive, how about yours? Bloopers are fun, but no names please, if it will cause a LEO problems!

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WildBill
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Re: Not a Good LEO Encounter

#106

Post by WildBill »

Tireshred wrote:Time to eat some crow here. It turns out this guy is a liar of the highest order, I found this out the hard way, I won't go into that, but suffice to say he can't be trusted at all. I found out the reason he was arrested was he had weed in his truck and the guns were found after they searched his vehicle. He's lucky they didn't keep his truck, but since it was a company truck, he would've lost his job earlier (he was fired last year for basically lying about everything). I'm really sorry I posted this on his word, I should know better.
Thanks for clearing that up. :thumbs2:
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mikeloc
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Re: Not a Good LEO Encounter

#107

Post by mikeloc »

:iagree:
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gigag04
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Re: Not a Good LEO Encounter

#108

Post by gigag04 »

Shocked that someone who claims to have been mistreated by the cops lied about the affair.

Looking back on the thread, I'm not shocked at the number of people that ripped the LEO....


Bonjour...
Opportunity is missed by most people because it is dressed in overalls and looks like work. - Thomas Edison
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VMI77
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Re: Not a Good LEO Encounter

#109

Post by VMI77 »

If the incident is as described, it's true highway robbery under the color of law.

Edited to add:

Should have read the entire thread first. Actually sounds like he got off easy.
"Journalism, n. A job for people who flunked out of STEM courses, enjoy making up stories, and have no detectable integrity or morals."

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VMI77
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Re: Not a Good LEO Encounter

#110

Post by VMI77 »

[quote="gigag04"]Shocked that someone who claims to have been mistreated by the cops lied about the affair.

Looking back on the thread, I'm not shocked at the number of people that ripped the LEO....


Bonjour...[/quote

And the way law enforcement at all levels is headed in this country, you shouldn't be.
"Journalism, n. A job for people who flunked out of STEM courses, enjoy making up stories, and have no detectable integrity or morals."

From the WeaponsMan blog, weaponsman.com
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jbarn
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Re: Not a Good LEO Encounter

#111

Post by jbarn »

VMI77 wrote:
gigag04 wrote:Shocked that someone who claims to have been mistreated by the cops lied about the affair.

Looking back on the thread, I'm not shocked at the number of people that ripped the LEO....



Bonjour...[/quote

And the way law enforcement at all levels is headed in this country, you shouldn't be.
You are referring to very rare incidents. Overall, LE performs outstandingly...
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Texas DPS Certified Private Security Classroom and Firearms Instructor
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VMI77
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Re: Not a Good LEO Encounter

#112

Post by VMI77 »

jbarn wrote:
VMI77 wrote:
gigag04 wrote:Shocked that someone who claims to have been mistreated by the cops lied about the affair.

Looking back on the thread, I'm not shocked at the number of people that ripped the LEO....



Bonjour...[/quote

And the way law enforcement at all levels is headed in this country, you shouldn't be.
You are referring to very rare incidents. Overall, LE performs outstandingly...
Not rare at all....I'm referring to the very frequent cases where the police report or claim one thing, up to arresting and falsifying charges on someone they abused, and a video they didn't know about surfaces and proves that they were lying (or some other evidence comes out or gets leaked). Seems like some incident like this comes out about once a week. Sometimes more than one officer is involved which makes it even worse. Sometimes the lying extends all the way to the top, including prosecutors. Often no action is taken against the perjuring officer.

It makes me wonder what was going on before just about everyone had a cell phone with a camera. Added to this are the numerous incidents where police try to prevent people from videoing them or even confiscate cell phones --for which there is rarely any reason but to hide what they are doing. I've also had some personal knowledge of police lying. Added to that are the cute little terms police use like "testilying." Also, I've been in jury pools where the prosecutor tells prospective jurors outright that the police lie on the witness stand and not to give an officer more credibility than anyone else.....but to examine the logic and consistency of their testimony. So, over the years I've gone from presumptively believing the police, to not believing either party, to presumptively believing the citizen (when said citizen doesn't have a police record).
"Journalism, n. A job for people who flunked out of STEM courses, enjoy making up stories, and have no detectable integrity or morals."

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srothstein
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Re: Not a Good LEO Encounter

#113

Post by srothstein »

VMI77 wrote:Not rare at all....I'm referring to the very frequent cases where the police report or claim one thing, up to arresting and falsifying charges on someone they abused, and a video they didn't know about surfaces and proves that they were lying (or some other evidence comes out or gets leaked). Seems like some incident like this comes out about once a week.
All of what you posted does happen, but the above quote is an important part of the problem. Remember that for something to be newsworthy, it must be rare, different, AND unusual. The old saw about a dog biting a man not being news but a man biting a dog is news.

Consider how many cases one officer in a big city makes. In San Antonio, I averaged probably around 15 calls per day. Lower it to just the arrests for a more reasonable number. I averaged arrests around once per day. Multiply it by the number of officers on the department on patrol. For San Antonio, I estimate it was about 700 back then. 700 arrests per day times seven days per week = 4900 arrests per week. One incident per week like you describe is still a rare event, percentage wise. And remember, the news will report it from anywhere in the states, not just the one city. It is even rarer than the one out of 4900.

I agree that even one out of 700 is way too many. But, Jbarn is correct that the police in general do a very good job. There are a lot of problems in law enforcement these days, and their image is very tarnished. There are even more problems with government in general. There are times I am very embarrassed to have ever been associated with law enforcement. But I know, deep down in my heart and academically in my brain, that most of the cops are doing a great job under difficult circumstances and that these incidents are very rare. And I know we still need to do more to eliminate them completely if we can.
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gigag04
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Re: Not a Good LEO Encounter

#114

Post by gigag04 »

:iagree:
And it's better today, ethically, than ever before.
Opportunity is missed by most people because it is dressed in overalls and looks like work. - Thomas Edison
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VMI77
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Re: Not a Good LEO Encounter

#115

Post by VMI77 »

srothstein wrote:
VMI77 wrote:Not rare at all....I'm referring to the very frequent cases where the police report or claim one thing, up to arresting and falsifying charges on someone they abused, and a video they didn't know about surfaces and proves that they were lying (or some other evidence comes out or gets leaked). Seems like some incident like this comes out about once a week.
All of what you posted does happen, but the above quote is an important part of the problem. Remember that for something to be newsworthy, it must be rare, different, AND unusual. The old saw about a dog biting a man not being news but a man biting a dog is news.

Consider how many cases one officer in a big city makes. In San Antonio, I averaged probably around 15 calls per day. Lower it to just the arrests for a more reasonable number. I averaged arrests around once per day. Multiply it by the number of officers on the department on patrol. For San Antonio, I estimate it was about 700 back then. 700 arrests per day times seven days per week = 4900 arrests per week. One incident per week like you describe is still a rare event, percentage wise. And remember, the news will report it from anywhere in the states, not just the one city. It is even rarer than the one out of 4900.

I agree that even one out of 700 is way too many. But, Jbarn is correct that the police in general do a very good job. There are a lot of problems in law enforcement these days, and their image is very tarnished. There are even more problems with government in general. There are times I am very embarrassed to have ever been associated with law enforcement. But I know, deep down in my heart and academically in my brain, that most of the cops are doing a great job under difficult circumstances and that these incidents are very rare. And I know we still need to do more to eliminate them completely if we can.
I agree that you've put such violations of trust in a better context than I did, though I think comparing publicized incidents to total arrests probably understates the magnitude of the problem. Given human nature, and the fact that the opportunity to wield power over others is provided by law enforcement, lots of bullies and psychopaths are going to want to be cops. Most of them are probably weeded out in the hiring process, but some are bound to get through. My guess would be that the percentage of bad apples would be in the 1% to 5% range, varying due to a number of factors such as location, rigor of hiring practices, agency, required qualifications, and the attitude of command. At the low end that would give a member of the public about a 1 in 100 chance of having a bad encounter with law enforcement.

There is no way these kinds of incidents can be eliminated as it is a system populated and run by human beings. They can be minimized by various measures, but the most important measure is appropriate punishment for violation of the law and of the public trust.
"Journalism, n. A job for people who flunked out of STEM courses, enjoy making up stories, and have no detectable integrity or morals."

From the WeaponsMan blog, weaponsman.com
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ShootDontTalk
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Re: Not a Good LEO Encounter

#116

Post by ShootDontTalk »

VMI77 wrote:[There is no way these kinds of incidents can be eliminated as it is a system populated and run by human beings. They can be minimized by various measures, but the most important measure is appropriate punishment for violation of the law and of the public trust.
My Lieutenant once said, "Police have a race problem. All of our recruits are part of the human race. Some are better, some are not. None of us is perfect. We miss a bad apple now and then."

I just finished writing a thank you note to the Chief for the fine service we have experienced from the Houston PD. Great, professional, friendly, courteous servants. I know one thing. Great officers are the product of great leadership. I am thankful for all the fine officers who serve and protect across our country.

I am thankful there was more to this story than we knew.
"When you have to shoot, shoot, don't talk!
Eli Wallach on concealed carry while taking a bubble bath

BuckFlicks
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Re: Not a Good LEO Encounter

#117

Post by BuckFlicks »

Given human nature, and the fact that the opportunity to wield power over others is provided by law enforcement, lots of bullies and psychopaths are going to want to be cops. Most of them are probably weeded out in the hiring process, but some are bound to get through.
I have worked in the Law Enforcement field for the last 17 years. This is a partially accurate statement. Control freaks and bullies do definitely exist in law enforcement and I believe in greater percentages than in other fields on average. They ARE drawn to the opportunity to act out their control urges and bully tendencies with impunity, and they tend to gravitate toward smaller towns because the application and qualification process is not as stringent as it is in bigger cities and many do not conduct psychological or proper background testing. In fact, some move from town to town because they get hired in one small town and get fired for whatever reason that resulted from their bullying behavior, then move on to the next small town that doesn't do a proper background check.

But what is important to remember is that you also have FAR greater numbers of selfless, courageous heroes in law enforcement than in other fields. They are drawn to the career because of the opportunity to serve and contribute to their communities and help people.

In my time, I have met some real jerks but I have met many more great people that I am proud to call friends and would not hesitate trust my life with. Despite what many people think, not every member of the government and law enforcement is out to deprive you of your liberties.
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OldCurlyWolf
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Re: Not a Good LEO Encounter

#118

Post by OldCurlyWolf »

BuckFlicks wrote:
Given human nature, and the fact that the opportunity to wield power over others is provided by law enforcement, lots of bullies and psychopaths are going to want to be cops. Most of them are probably weeded out in the hiring process, but some are bound to get through.
I have worked in the Law Enforcement field for the last 17 years. This is a partially accurate statement. Control freaks and bullies do definitely exist in law enforcement and I believe in greater percentages than in other fields on average. They ARE drawn to the opportunity to act out their control urges and bully tendencies with impunity, and they tend to gravitate toward smaller towns because the application and qualification process is not as stringent as it is in bigger cities and many do not conduct psychological or proper background testing. In fact, some move from town to town because they get hired in one small town and get fired for whatever reason that resulted from their bullying behavior, then move on to the next small town that doesn't do a proper background check.

But what is important to remember is that you also have FAR greater numbers of selfless, courageous heroes in law enforcement than in other fields. They are drawn to the career because of the opportunity to serve and contribute to their communities and help people.

In my time, I have met some real jerks but I have met many more great people that I am proud to call friends and would not hesitate trust my life with. Despite what many people think, not every member of the government and law enforcement is out to deprive you of your liberties.
:iagree:
BTDT. I know several that I would trust with my life or that of my family, as they would trust me. I also know some that I wouldn't trust as far as I could throw an elephant without any mechanical help.
The good thing is that the first kind substantially out number the second. :txflag:
I won't be wronged, I won't be insulted, and I won't be laid a hand on.
I don't do those things to other people and I require the same of them.

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Deltaboy
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Re: Not a Good LEO Encounter

#119

Post by Deltaboy »

Thanks for clearing that up. :txflag:
I 'm just an Ole Sinner saved by Grace and Smith & Wesson.
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