Arlington City Council Could Ban Weapons

[hillfighter]

"He's just walking around [saying] 'See my gun? Look, I got a gun and there's nothing you can do about it.' He knew he was frightening people. He knew exactly what he was doing," said parent Karen Rabb.

Concealed carry citizens aren't allowed to display their handgun like that.
Open carry citizens aren't allowed to carry a handgun in the open either.
But cops can carry handguns openly.

If "there's nothing you can do about it" then he must have been a cop. Assuming the story isn't fiction.

[SewTexas]

I always told my son as he was growing up, "You can do anything you want to do, be anything you want to be, as long as you don't scare the old ladies and the little children." Why is it, he understood from a young age what I was trying to say, but grown men don't get it?

[Abraham]

I'm a gun-guy.

I carry everywhere it's legal.

I would be startled as heck if I went to the grocery store (or anywhere else for that matter) and saw someone carrying a rifle into the store.

I'd immediately wonder if they were some mass murderer type.

I'd be taking cover...

[jmra]

I'm a gun-guy.

I carry everywhere it's legal.

I would be startled as heck if I went to the grocery store (or anywhere else for that matter) and saw someone carrying a rifle into the store.

I'd immediately wonder if they were some mass murderer type.

I'd be taking cover...

100%. I do believe that if it were legal OCing a handgun would probably go unnoticed for the most part.

[Keith B]

"He's just walking around [saying] 'See my gun? Look, I got a gun and there's nothing you can do about it.' He knew he was frightening people. He knew exactly what he was doing," said parent Karen Rabb.

Concealed carry citizens aren't allowed to display their handgun like that.
Open carry citizens aren't allowed to carry a handgun in the open either.
But cops can carry handguns openly.

If "there's nothing you can do about it" then he must have been a cop. Assuming the story isn't fiction.

This was in Georgia and they have open carry already with a permit. This guy had a permit. He is an idiot.

[carlson1]

Very logical and I just don't understand why people can't grasp it. The "in your face" tactics are moving us backwards.

[hillfighter]

I missed the part where Arlington annexed Georgia. Sorry.

[mamabearCali]

Perhaps instead of screaming at them they they are ridiculous and irresponsible. You could suggest another way they can protest.

Obviously this has been attempted on numerous occasions without success. Have you actually read many of the threads on this topic? If so, the impossibility of dealing with these people and the damage they are causing should be obvious.

Sorry what I meant to say did not post.

I think the damage is being done by a law that is depriving people is their god-given constitutional rights. So frustrated people are doing what the law permits.

Something is either legal or not. You don't have to agree with them, or their tactics. But I do not think they should be harassed for their choice to use their rights.

I would be frustrated too if I had a bill die in committee for ten years too.

What they are doing is damaging efforts to get the law changed so that we can in fact exercise those rights in a manner that will not be alarming, a way that you even stated was less alarming, and that is handgun open carry. Their actions are creating opposition to that change, not support.

You may be 100% correct. I can certainly see where open carry of rifles could cause that. The reason they are open carrying rifles is that they are not permitted to OC handguns.

The open carry of handguns here in VA causes little to no notice. No one cares 99% of the time.

[jmra]

Perhaps instead of screaming at them they they are ridiculous and irresponsible. You could suggest another way they can protest.

Obviously this has been attempted on numerous occasions without success. Have you actually read many of the threads on this topic? If so, the impossibility of dealing with these people and the damage they are causing should be obvious.

Sorry what I meant to say did not post.

I think the damage is being done by a law that is depriving people is their god-given constitutional rights. So frustrated people are doing what the law permits.

Something is either legal or not. You don't have to agree with them, or their tactics. But I do not think they should be harassed for their choice to use their rights.

I would be frustrated too if I had a bill die in committee for ten years too.

What they are doing is damaging efforts to get the law changed so that we can in fact exercise those rights in a manner that will not be alarming, a way that you even stated was less alarming, and that is handgun open carry. Their actions are creating opposition to that change, not support.

You may be 100% correct. I can certainly see where open carry of rifles could cause that. The reason they are open carrying rifles is that they are not permitted to OC handguns.
and the continued "in your face" demonstrations of long rifle carry may well result in the loss of that right.
The open carry of handguns here in VA causes little to no notice. No one cares 99% of the time.

if we work with the TSRA and those like Mr. Cotton this very well may be the norm in Texas.

[getsome]

Open-carry bills have not been filed "every session for the last 10 years." Only two bills have been filed (2011 and 2013) and neither were NRA bills. NRA and TSRA testified in favor of HB700 in 2013, but that was the extent of our support. It wasn't our bill and we don't do a full court press on anything that isn't our bill. (There's a lot more to our political full-court-press than merely testifying in favor of a bill.) Obviously you are not aware of the efforts to pass open-carry in Texas. The NRA and TSRA are the only organizations that can get it passed and we may not be able to do so if the in-your-face tactics continue. If you truly want open-carry to pass, then leave the rifle at home when you go to the store.

A couple things don't make sense here:

1. Only two bills have been filed and neither were NRA bills.
2. NRA/TSRA testified in favor of HB700, but that was the extent of the support.

then the following statement:

Obviously you are not aware of the efforts to pass open-carry in Texas. The NRA and TSRA are the only organizations that can get it passed.

If the NRA and TSRA aren't filing bills, have testified only on HB700, then what are the other efforts they are making if they are truly the only organizations that can get it passed? I'm sure there may be things going on behind the scenes, but I'd think if the NRA/TSRA were serious about getting it passed (permit or no permit), shouldn't they be putting forth bills each and every legislative session?

A lack of communication will cause a perceived lack of interest. If the NRA/TSRA doesn't communicate to the people that are looking for change, then the people that are looking for change will perceive that the NRA/TSRA have no interest in helping the cause of open carry. When that happens, people will do what they believe needs to be done to move forward. I think that's what is happening in this case.

Getsome

[Jumping Frog]

The NRA and TSRA are the only organizations that can get it passed ....

... I'd think if the NRA/TSRA were serious about getting it passed (permit or no permit), shouldn't they be putting forth bills each and every legislative session?

Two points.

First, ,if you are familiar with Texas politics, you know that the legislative session is a very short time window every other year. Effective lobbying recognizes the need to focus efforts on one or two major bills. One cannot tackle everything all at once. Recent sessions have seen NRA/TSRA efforts focused on passing a parking lot bill and a campus carry bill. Personally, I am glad for the parking lot bill protection, which means a whole lot more to me than open carry. After all, I have a gun on my employer's parking lot every day. I also have college-age children and getting campus carry passed is more important to me than open carry.

Second, when the previous open carry bills were poorly drafted, mediocre pieces of work derived in a vacuum and then lobbied in an abrasive and amateur manner, the NRA and TSRA simply had to step back or they risk losing credibility with Legislators that literally took decades to create. The last session was a perfect example, when some of the more vehement open carry proponents where literally spreading hatred, vitriol, and veiled threats to the Legislators who were pro-bill for not acting quickly enough.

If you are tempted to label me one of those anti-open carry haters, please be advised I was regularly open carrying every week (sometimes open, sometimes concealed) for years before moving to Texas. I am not opposed to open carry, but I am opposed to juvenile antics and ineffective tactics.

[getsome]

First, ,if you are familiar with Texas politics, you know that the legislative session is a very short time window every other year. Effective lobbying recognizes the need to focus efforts on one or two major bills. One cannot tackle everything all at once. Recent sessions have seen NRA/TSRA efforts focused on passing a parking lot bill and a campus carry bill. Personally, I am glad for the parking lot bill protection, which means a whole lot more to me than open carry. After all, I have a gun on my employer's parking lot every day. I also have college-age children and getting campus carry passed is more important to me than open carry.

I'm familiar with how things work. There is a short window when they are in session, but time to prep/lobby/discuss between sessions. You will have people on both sides saying what is important to them, and they are both right. It's good to see that your needs have been met, but others needs haven't and they are passionate about their cause.

Second, when the previous open carry bills were poorly drafted, mediocre pieces of work derived in a vacuum and then lobbied in an abrasive and amateur manner, the NRA and TSRA simply had to step back or they risk losing credibility with Legislators that literally took decades to create. The last session was a perfect example, when some of the more vehement open carry proponents where literally spreading hatred, vitriol, and veiled threats to the Legislators who were pro-bill for not acting quickly enough.

So the question would be, where is the well drafted NRA/TSRA sponsored bill or the discussion about it? Has the NRA/TSRA brought in any of the leaders of these groups to discuss getting their buy in on a sponsored bill? I'm sure there's a strategy behind this, but why not communicate the strategy or the fact that there is lobbying going on behind the scenes. At minimum, meet with the leaders of these (multiple) groups together to discuss the strategy and get everyone on the same page and show them that the NRA/TSRA are serious about getting open carry passed. This might help with what you call "juvenile antics and ineffective tactics".

I'm not interested in labeling anyone, so no worries there. Communication can help resolve this issue for many people, but I think you will always have a portion that aren't going to be satisfied, regardless. Two sides to every coin.

Getsome

[Charles L. Cotton]

Open-carry bills have not been filed "every session for the last 10 years." Only two bills have been filed (2011 and 2013) and neither were NRA bills. NRA and TSRA testified in favor of HB700 in 2013, but that was the extent of our support. It wasn't our bill and we don't do a full court press on anything that isn't our bill. (There's a lot more to our political full-court-press than merely testifying in favor of a bill.) Obviously you are not aware of the efforts to pass open-carry in Texas. The NRA and TSRA are the only organizations that can get it passed and we may not be able to do so if the in-your-face tactics continue. If you truly want open-carry to pass, then leave the rifle at home when you go to the store.

A couple things don't make sense here:

1. Only two bills have been filed and neither were NRA bills.
2. NRA/TSRA testified in favor of HB700, but that was the extent of the support.

then the following statement:

Obviously you are not aware of the efforts to pass open-carry in Texas. The NRA and TSRA are the only organizations that can get it passed.

If the NRA and TSRA aren't filing bills, have testified only on HB700, then what are the other efforts they are making if they are truly the only organizations that can get it passed?

I have already posted some of these efforts, others I have stated cannot be made public.

. . . but I'd think if the NRA/TSRA were serious about getting it passed (permit or no permit), shouldn't they be putting forth bills each and every legislative session?

We haven't been "serious" about passing open-carry bills in 2011 and 2013, again for reasons I've already posted several times. 2015 will be the first session for us to introduce an open-carry bill.

When that happens, people will do what they believe needs to be done to move forward. I think that's what is happening in this case.

You may be right, but even a blind man can see that their efforts are not helping the effort to pass open-carry. Also, there can be no doubt that the NRA and TSRA have now put open-carry on our legislative agendas, so why continue to pursue failed tactics?

Chas.

[The Annoyed Man]

Had a Facebook conversation yesterday with a friend from my church. He is neither anti-gun nor PRO-gun. He is on the market for a pistol, and would consider a CHL, but maybe not. In other words, he is a lukewarm fence-sitter.

He posted on Facebook yesterday that he saw the Open Carry demonstration in Arlington, didn't realize what it was and was pretty alarmed. After he was informed at the scene what was going on, he decided he didn't like it. He said he didn't have a problem with people carrying concealed pistols with a license, but he didn't want people open carrying long guns. When I saw him at church today and told him that the demonstration was actually for open carry of PISTOLS, he said "I have no problem with carrying pistols in the open or concealed, but I don't want people carrying AK47s around in public. He doesn't care if you own one. He doesn't care if you take it to the range. He doesn't care if you use it to go hunting.

BUT HE DID SAY THAT HE WOULD SUPPORT THE PASSAGE OF A LAW MAKING IT ILLEGAL TO OPEN CARRY LONG GUNS.

THAT is the effect that these OC long gun demonstrations have on even people who might be erstwhile friends of the 2nd amendment. When I asked him at church today what his major objection was, he said "It's just too much "in your face", and I don't like it."

You could argue that his fear is irrational, but that is actually irrelevant because he is a college educated conservative who votes, and he would support passage of a law which does exactly the opposite of what the demonstrators intended. It alienated him. And that is somebody who is an erstwhile lukewarm ally, and at worst neutral. Imagine someone who is lukewarm against, or an outright enemy of the 2nd amendment.

Baby steps. It is the only rational way. These in your face protestors are going to destroy the movement.

[jmra]

Had a Facebook conversation yesterday with a friend from my church. He is neither anti-gun nor PRO-gun. He is on the market for a pistol, and would consider a CHL, but maybe not. In other words, he is a lukewarm fence-sitter.

He posted on Facebook yesterday that he saw the Open Carry demonstration in Arlington, didn't realize what it was and was pretty alarmed. After he was informed at the scene what was going on, he decided he didn't like it. He said he didn't have a problem with people carrying concealed pistols with a license, but he didn't want people open carrying long guns. When I saw him at church today and told him that the demonstration was actually for open carry of PISTOLS, he said "I have no problem with carrying pistols in the open or concealed, but I don't want people carrying AK47s around in public. He doesn't care if you own one. He doesn't care if you take it to the range. He doesn't care if you use it to go hunting.

BUT HE DID SAY THAT HE WOULD SUPPORT THE PASSAGE OF A LAW MAKING IT ILLEGAL TO OPEN CARRY LONG GUNS.

THAT is the effect that these OC long gun demonstrations have on even people who might be erstwhile friends of the 2nd amendment. When I asked him at church today what his major objection was, he said "It's just too much "in your face", and I don't like it."

You could argue that his fear is irrational, but that is actually irrelevant because he is a college educated conservative who votes, and he would support passage of a law which does exactly the opposite of what the demonstrators intended. It alienated him. And that is somebody who is an erstwhile lukewarm ally, and at worst neutral. Imagine someone who is lukewarm against, or an outright enemy of the 2nd amendment.

Baby steps. It is the only rational way. These in your face protestors are going to destroy the movement.

I have seen this happen with a number of people.