Arlington City Council Could Ban Weapons

[mamabearCali]

Ok, I don't always agree with how OC people do things, but at least they are willing to try to change the conversation.

The reason OC tactics in TX are so ridiculous is because your laws forbid the OCing of handguns, even with a CHL permit. Here in VA, it is perfectly legal to OC a handgun. Anyone who can buy a gun can carry it openly. So instead of rifles at an OC rally there are glock 17's and Karh pm9's all safely holstered with retention. A lot less obvious and a lot less intimidating. I have been to OC rallies and mostly it is just handguns, few guys will have slung rifles. At OC dinners here in Richmond there are no rifles, just handguns. Now in common life OC in the cities is uncommon. OC in the suburbs is more common. OC in the country is very common. It is legal everywhere.


Perhaps instead of screaming at them they they are ridiculous and irresponsible. You could suggest another way they can protest. In truth I don't think they are ridiculous. I think they are forced into a ridiculous situation by a ill-thought out law. So they are forced to either be very intimidation or not say anything at all. Some people won't be forced into silence.

[jmra]

Perhaps instead of screaming at them they they are ridiculous and irresponsible. You could suggest another way they can protest.

Obviously this has been attempted on numerous occasions without success. Have you actually read many of the threads on this topic? If so, the impossibility of dealing with these people and the damage they are causing should be obvious.

[carlson1]

Mr. Cotton has given suggestion after suggestion. He has even given them correct way to file a bill. NOT ALL, but a few are just wanting to stick their guns in anyone's face they can. Arlington City Counsel was not the place to demonstrate.

[adric22]

Yes, I am one of those people that carry my rifle with me when I go grocery shopping. If that clears things up. So what have I seen in my experiences so far? I've seen a lot of positive changes from my perspective. When we started this a year ago we were getting hassled by police regularly. Many of us were arrested. We were a small group of people and if we wanted to have a demonstration, we'd drive long distances just to get a group of 20 people together to do this.

How have things changed? Well, for starters, every time we go out we gain new members. Our numbers grow stonger exponentially. Now we have demonstrations 2 or 3 times per week and we are doing it in our local cities now. There is probably a demonstration going on somewhere in Texas at just about any time, probably as you are reading this. There are enough members that each city has their own groups and we no longer have to drive long distances. Open Carry Texas alone has over 10,000 members now. Here in Tarrant County (Ft.Worth area) we have over 1,200 members alone. We're in the news almost every week for something or another. Some of the publicity is bad, but most of it is either good or neutral. And now the police leave us alone. Rarely do they approach us. The 911 operators have been trained to explain open carry to people. And now people stop and talk to us all of the time. We're able to explain the laws and what it is that we are wanting to get changed. People are talking.

We have now made open carry a common sight. And we have made it a right that is capable of being exercised. And don't tell me the NRA is working to bring us open carry of handguns. We've seen several NRA-backed open carry bills go through the Texas legislature each and every session for the last 10 years. It always dies without ever even getting a vote. This time will be different. We've made enough media splash that the bill will come up for a vote this time. It will get passed. And the reason it will get passed is because of our hard work. One of the things we've told the public over and over when they talk to us is that if they want to stop seeing us carry rifles around, help get open carry passed for handguns. That is the best way to stop it. We won't bother to carry our rifles around anymore once we can carry our handguns.

[Jumping Frog]

[ShootDontTalk]

I have a question. I really am not concerned about OC at all. My question concerns tactics.

I grew up in the Deep South. I saw the "colored" and "white" facilities and always wondered why it had to be so. I watched numerous "legal" attempts to assert the right of every American to be equal end in utter futility. It wasn't until the civil rights people brought out "in your face" tactics that the whole issue of the Constitutional rights of a whole class of people were brought to national attention. Now have all the wrongs been set right? No. Most have.

What is not so well known about that struggle is that many moderate civil rights leaders said the "in your face" tactics would scare the politicians into even harsher responses against blacks and would turn all white people into mobs. While some of that did happen, ultimately the Constitution won out.

Now I'm hearing the same kinds of comments - from both sides, as I heard back in the early 60's. I don't know how to say this any better. Given the current agendas of 2nd Ammendment "repression" in recent years, is there a rationale for "in your face" tactics?

[rbwhatever1]

Pretty straight forward to me. The right to Bear Arms shall not be infringed and the State of Texas has chosen bearing Long Guns over Hand Guns with a "view to prevent crime". I doubt that Texas will attempt to abolish the 2nd Amendment. Texas may choose the prescribed "preference" in how we "Bear Arms" and it appears they have 2 choices. Long Guns or Hand Guns.

Bear Away Texans!

[G.A. Heath]

There are several things happening on the Open Carry Front. The first thing I have to point out is that the situation we have right now is entirely different than the situation we had in the last three legislative sessions.

First off OpenCarry.Org really is not involved with any of the OC groups protesting, secondly Lone Star Citizens Defense League (LSCDL) seems to have died and no longer seems to be a player. This means that the bomb throwers we have seen in the last three sessions are not active right now, and should they become active it will hopefully be with less effect than before.

There are multiple groups involved in the push for legal OC in Texas, but there are three big groups that need to be watched to see what happens. First off is the more minor of the three, Come And Take It Texas (CATI). CATI was not invited to give testimony at the interim senate hearing, if they had been then they would be promoted on my list, but they are one of the two big protest groups. The second group is Open Carry Texas (OCT). OCT was invited to, and did, give testimony at the interim hearing. OCT is the second big protest group. The third and final Texas group involved in pushing for legalizing Open Carry is the Texas State Rifle Association (TSRA). TSRA was invited to, and did, give testimony at the interim hearing as well. Another item that changes the OC landscape politically in Texas is that we did have an interim senate hearing on the subject, this has not happened before. We will have to fight an effort to pass "universal background checks" in the next session, I also suspect we will see an effort to restrict long gun carry and replica/pre-1899 carry as a result of the OC arrests/protests.

There is a lot of politics and a lot of interest in what happens on the OC front. This session is our best chance to make progress on passing Open Carry for a number of reasons, and with the influx of folks from blue states that will vote blue it could easily be our last chance to make significant progress.

[jmra]

Yes, I am one of those people that carry my rifle with me when I go grocery shopping. If that clears things up. So what have I seen in my experiences so far? I've seen a lot of positive changes from my perspective. When we started this a year ago we were getting hassled by police regularly. Many of us were arrested. We were a small group of people and if we wanted to have a demonstration, we'd drive long distances just to get a group of 20 people together to do this.

How have things changed? Well, for starters, every time we go out we gain new members. Our numbers grow stonger exponentially. Now we have demonstrations 2 or 3 times per week and we are doing it in our local cities now. There is probably a demonstration going on somewhere in Texas at just about any time, probably as you are reading this. There are enough members that each city has their own groups and we no longer have to drive long distances. Open Carry Texas alone has over 10,000 members now. Here in Tarrant County (Ft.Worth area) we have over 1,200 members alone. We're in the news almost every week for something or another. Some of the publicity is bad, but most of it is either good or neutral. And now the police leave us alone. Rarely do they approach us. The 911 operators have been trained to explain open carry to people. And now people stop and talk to us all of the time. We're able to explain the laws and what it is that we are wanting to get changed. People are talking.

We have now made open carry a common sight. And we have made it a right that is capable of being exercised. And don't tell me the NRA is working to bring us open carry of handguns. We've seen several NRA-backed open carry bills go through the Texas legislature each and every session for the last 10 years. It always dies without ever even getting a vote. This time will be different. We've made enough media splash that the bill will come up for a vote this time. It will get passed. And the reason it will get passed is because of our hard work. One of the things we've told the public over and over when they talk to us is that if they want to stop seeing us carry rifles around, help get open carry passed for handguns. That is the best way to stop it. We won't bother to carry our rifles around anymore once we can carry our handguns.

Sorry, not buying it. If, and that is a big if, OC is passed in the next session it will be in spite of your actions. If OC passes this session it will be because of the hard work of TSRA and people like Mr. Cotton, assuming they can overcome the damage caused by the "in your face" people who simply don't get it.

[mamabearCali]

Perhaps instead of screaming at them they they are ridiculous and irresponsible. You could suggest another way they can protest.

Obviously this has been attempted on numerous occasions without success. Have you actually read many of the threads on this topic? If so, the impossibility of dealing with these people and the damage they are causing should be obvious.

Sorry what I meant to say did not post.

I think the damage is being done by a law that is depriving people is their god-given constitutional rights. So frustrated people are doing what the law permits.

Something is either legal or not. You don't have to agree with them, or their tactics. But I do not think they should be harassed for their choice to use their rights.

I would be frustrated too if I had a bill die in committee for ten years too.

[carlson1]

It will not be because of the "in your face" mentally challenged people if the laws change.

[rbwhatever1]

G.A.Heath, good information on the active OC groups in Texas. I'll be reading up on them and start following this issue a little more closer. Hopefully an OC of All Firearms (unrestricted, unlicensed Constitutional Carry) will be passed next year by the State.

I can't imagine anyone wanting to shoulder a Long Gun when a gun belt is much more logical. Hopefully the Legislature will Legislate some Logic in regards to the wearing of Arms...

[G.A. Heath]

G.A.Heath, good information on the active OC groups in Texas. I'll be reading up on them and start following this issue a little more closer. Hopefully an OC of All Firearms (unrestricted, unlicensed Constitutional Carry) will be passed next year by the State.

I can't imagine anyone wanting to shoulder a Long Gun when a gun belt is much more logical. Hopefully the Legislature will Legislate some Logic in regards to the wearing of Arms...

I don't see unlicensed carry of handguns being passed in the next session. It would take too much political capital to achieve leaving our opponents free to do damage in other areas. We should be able to get licensed oc this next session and once we have oc it becomes much easier to remove restrictions than it would be to do it all at once. I am an idealist at heart but a realist in practice.

[jmra]

Perhaps instead of screaming at them they they are ridiculous and irresponsible. You could suggest another way they can protest.

Obviously this has been attempted on numerous occasions without success. Have you actually read many of the threads on this topic? If so, the impossibility of dealing with these people and the damage they are causing should be obvious.

Sorry what I meant to say did not post.

I think the damage is being done by a law that is depriving people is their god-given constitutional rights. So frustrated people are doing what the law permits.

Something is either legal or not. You don't have to agree with them, or their tactics. But I do not think they should be harassed for their choice to use their rights.

I would be frustrated too if I had a bill die in committee for ten years too.

What they are doing is damaging efforts to get the law changed so that we can in fact exercise those rights in a manner that will not be alarming, a way that you even stated was less alarming, and that is handgun open carry. Their actions are creating opposition to that change, not support.

[Charles L. Cotton]

Yes, I am one of those people that carry my rifle with me when I go grocery shopping. If that clears things up. So what have I seen in my experiences so far? I've seen a lot of positive changes from my perspective. When we started this a year ago we were getting hassled by police regularly. Many of us were arrested. We were a small group of people and if we wanted to have a demonstration, we'd drive long distances just to get a group of 20 people together to do this.

How have things changed? Well, for starters, every time we go out we gain new members. Our numbers grow stonger exponentially. Now we have demonstrations 2 or 3 times per week and we are doing it in our local cities now. There is probably a demonstration going on somewhere in Texas at just about any time, probably as you are reading this. There are enough members that each city has their own groups and we no longer have to drive long distances. Open Carry Texas alone has over 10,000 members now. Here in Tarrant County (Ft.Worth area) we have over 1,200 members alone. We're in the news almost every week for something or another. Some of the publicity is bad, but most of it is either good or neutral. And now the police leave us alone. Rarely do they approach us. The 911 operators have been trained to explain open carry to people. And now people stop and talk to us all of the time. We're able to explain the laws and what it is that we are wanting to get changed. People are talking.

We have now made open carry a common sight. And we have made it a right that is capable of being exercised. And don't tell me the NRA is working to bring us open carry of handguns. We've seen several NRA-backed open carry bills go through the Texas legislature each and every session for the last 10 years. It always dies without ever even getting a vote. This time will be different. We've made enough media splash that the bill will come up for a vote this time. It will get passed. And the reason it will get passed is because of our hard work. One of the things we've told the public over and over when they talk to us is that if they want to stop seeing us carry rifles around, help get open carry passed for handguns. That is the best way to stop it. We won't bother to carry our rifles around anymore once we can carry our handguns.

I guess we'll have to disagree on your claims of positive impact by you and other carrying rifles into grocery stores. Not one single positive news report has been seen in the Houston broadcast area, not one. There have been several negative TV new reports, including some man-on-the-street interviews with people who don't like open-carry one bit.

Legislators who are or want to be supportive of open-carry are asking that people stop such tactics because of the negative backlash coming from their constituents. Even if you are getting some positive feedback from people on the street or in stores, they are very few in comparison to those complaining and they don't get to vote on bills in the legislature.

Open-carry bills have not been filed "every session for the last 10 years." Only two bills have been filed (2011 and 2013) and neither were NRA bills. NRA and TSRA testified in favor of HB700 in 2013, but that was the extent of our support. It wasn't our bill and we don't do a full court press on anything that isn't our bill. (There's a lot more to our political full-court-press than merely testifying in favor of a bill.) Obviously you are not aware of the efforts to pass open-carry in Texas. The NRA and TSRA are the only organizations that can get it passed and we may not be able to do so if the in-your-face tactics continue. If you truly want open-carry to pass, then leave the rifle at home when you go to the store.

Chas.