ANOTHER METHOD TO FIGHT 30.06 SIGNS WHEREVER YOU SEE THEM

[WildBill]

What about service monkeys?

I would think they'd be a lot more helpful than a dog.

They have hands and a prehensile tail.

O.K., back on topic: Someone, a few posts back asked denied entrance by a 30.06 sign how could they give the business their card.

Answer: Mail them the card.

No, it's not as satisfying as handing them a card personally, but sometimes it better to light a candle than curse the darkness.

Better yet, have your capuchin hand deliver it!

[jimlongley]

What about service monkeys?

I would think they'd be a lot more helpful than a dog.

They have hands and a prehensile tail.

O.K., back on topic: Someone, a few posts back asked denied entrance by a 30.06 sign how could they give the business their card.

Answer: Mail them the card.

No, it's not as satisfying as handing them a card personally, but sometimes it better to light a candle than curse the darkness.

In a couple of instances I stood outside the business and requested that an employee send the manager out to speak with me. One was at a shop on Mockingbird in Dallas that catered to the "tree hugger" and such crowd, with a compliant 30.06 sign in the window. I was there to buy my wife a hammock that they had advertised, and almost didn't see the sign as I walked up. I stood in front of the door until and employee came to ask me if there was a problem, and I said there was and I needed to see a manager. When the manager came out I complained about all of the bicycles parked on the sidewalk that were impeding people from using it, and then pointed to the sign, carded her and told her there were two reasons why she wasn't getting my money today and walked away. She blustered something and then decided to call me names instead.

When my wife and I were shopping for a new car for her, she was interested in a Kia like her friend had. We stopped at the Kia dealer on 75 in Plano and were immediately inundated by salesmen before we even got out of our (obviously new) car. We walked the parking lot with one of the overbearing salesmen and then he was taking us inside to see other selections, and to try to pin us down, when we spotted the non-compliant sign. I pointed it out to my wife, she said "Oh No!" and the salesman said "What's wrong?" at which point I indicated the sign and told him that Kia discriminates against law abiding citizens, handed him a card and turned around and walked away. The sales manager was summoned, rapidly, and he came out and blustered about the city requiring the sign, which I pointed out was a lie, and then told me that he would let me come in, which I told him would be a violation of the law (but I have no idea) and gave him a card and we left while he followed us down the parking lot trying to talk over the radio which I turned up.

At least one other place I was already inside before I saw the sign and just asked for a manager and gave him the card before leaving.

I have mailed an expanded version to Grapevine Mills.

And I have one to Bass Pro Shops a long time ago, and within a week their (non-compliant) signs came down, as well as sending me a letter of apology.

[MeMelYup]

Grapevine mills mall: thinking about this, wouldn't it be better to contact all the merchants located there and explain why you won't visit their establishments?

[RogueUSMC]

I didn't know that you *could* deny access to service dogs, regardless of type.

Until 1/1/14, a business could deny entry by any dog other than those helping the blind.

Chas.

Charles,

Can you give me a reference on that change? I would like to see the revision. Prior there were regulations that prohibited denial of entry to public facilities (definition below). We raised a service dog and had to challenge the local DPS license office Sargent because she threatened to have my wife arrested if she didn't leave the office with the dog.

http://www.statutes.legis.state.tx.us/d ... HR.121.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

(5) "Public facilities" includes a street, highway, sidewalk, walkway, common carrier, airplane, motor vehicle, railroad train, motor bus, streetcar, boat, or any other public conveyance or mode of transportation; a hotel, motel, or other place of lodging; a public building maintained by any unit or subdivision of government; a building to which the general public is invited; a college dormitory or other educational facility; a restaurant or other place where food is offered for sale to the public; and any other place of public accommodation, amusement, convenience, or resort to which the general public or any classification of persons from the general public is regularly, normally, or customarily invited.

Just two days ago I heard a story on the radio about a veteran with his service dog in a Houston restaurant being asked to leave. He called the police. I am not sure of the final outcome.

But they can ask him to leave without giving a reason...what was the police expected to do?

[MeMelYup]

Here is some information on service dogs. http://www.ada.gov/qasrvc.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

U.S. Department of Justice
Civil Rights Division
Disability Rights Section

COMMONLY ASKED QUESTIONS ABOUT

SERVICE ANIMALS IN PLACES OF BUSINESS

1. Q: What are the laws that apply to my business?

A: Under the Americans with Disabilities Act (ADA), privately owned businesses that serve the public, such as restaurants, hotels, retail stores, taxicabs, theaters, concert halls, and sports facilities, are prohibited from discriminating against individuals with disabilities. The ADA requires these businesses to allow people with disabilities to bring their service animals onto business premises in whatever areas customers are generally allowed.

2. Q: What is a service animal?

A: The ADA defines a service animal as any guide dog, signal dog, or other animal individually trained to provide assistance to an individual with a disability. If they meet this definition, animals are considered service animals under the ADA regardless of whether they have been licensed or certified by a state or local government.
Service animals perform some of the functions and tasks that the individual with a disability cannot perform for him or herself. Guide dogs are one type of service animal, used by some individuals who are blind. This is the type of service animal with which most people are familiar. But there are service animals that assist persons with other kinds of disabilities in their day-to-day activities. Some examples include:
_ Alerting persons with hearing impairments to sounds.

_ Pulling wheelchairs or carrying and picking up things for persons with mobility impairments.

_ Assisting persons with mobility impairments with balance.

A service animal is not a pet.

3. Q: How can I tell if an animal is really a service animal and not just a pet?

A: Some, but not all, service animals wear special collars and harnesses. Some, but not all, are licensed or certified and have identification papers. If you are not certain that an animal is a service animal, you may ask the person who has the animal if it is a service animal required because of a disability. However, an individual who is going to a restaurant or theater is not likely to be carrying documentation of his or her medical condition or disability. Therefore, such documentation generally may not be required as a condition for providing service to an individual accompanied by a service animal. Although a number of states have programs to certify service animals, you may not insist on proof of state certification before permitting the service animal to accompany the person with a disability.

4. Q: What must I do when an individual with a service animal comes to my business?

A: The service animal must be permitted to accompany the individual with a disability to all areas of the facility where customers are normally allowed to go. An individual with a service animal may not be segregated from other customers.

5. Q: I have always had a clearly posted "no pets" policy at my establishment. Do I still have to allow service animals in?

A: Yes. A service animal is not a pet. The ADA requires you to modify your "no pets" policy to allow the use of a service animal by a person with a disability. This does not mean you must abandon your "no pets" policy altogether but simply that you must make an exception to your general rule for service animals.

6. Q: My county health department has told me that only a guide dog has to be admitted. If I follow those regulations, am I violating the ADA?

A: Yes, if you refuse to admit any other type of service animal on the basis of local health department regulations or other state or local laws. The ADA provides greater protection for individuals with disabilities and so it takes priority over the local or state laws or regulations.

7. Q: Can I charge a maintenance or cleaning fee for customers who bring service animals into my business?

A: No. Neither a deposit nor a surcharge may be imposed on an individual with a disability as a condition to allowing a service animal to accompany the individual with a disability, even if deposits are routinely required for pets. However, a public accommodation may charge its customers with disabilities if a service animal causes damage so long as it is the regular practice of the entity to charge non-disabled customers for the same types of damages. For example, a hotel can charge a guest with a disability for the cost of repairing or cleaning furniture damaged by a service animal if it is the hotel's policy to charge when non-disabled guests cause such damage.

8. Q: I operate a private taxicab and I don't want animals in my taxi; they smell, shed hair and sometimes have "accidents." Am I violating the ADA if I refuse to pick up someone with a service animal?

A: Yes. Taxicab companies may not refuse to provide services to individuals with disabilities. Private taxicab companies are also prohibited from charging higher fares or fees for transporting individuals with disabilities and their service animals than they charge to other persons for the same or equivalent service.

9. Q: Am I responsible for the animal while the person with a disability is in my business?

A: No. The care or supervision of a service animal is solely the responsibility of his or her owner. You are not required to provide care or food or a special location for the animal.

10. Q: What if a service animal barks or growls at other people, or otherwise acts out of control?

A: You may exclude any animal, including a service animal, from your facility when that animal's behavior poses a direct threat to the health or safety of others. For example, any service animal that displays vicious behavior towards other guests or customers may be excluded. You may not make assumptions, however, about how a particular animal is likely to behave based on your past experience with other animals. Each situation must be considered individually.
Although a public accommodation may exclude any service animal that is out of control, it should give the individual with a disability who uses the service animal the option of continuing to enjoy its goods and services without having the service animal on the premises.

11. Q: Can I exclude an animal that doesn't really seem dangerous but is disruptive to my business?

A: There may be a few circumstances when a public accommodation is not required to accommodate a service animal--that is, when doing so would result in a fundamental alteration to the nature of the business. Generally, this is not likely to occur in restaurants, hotels, retail stores, theaters, concert halls, and sports facilities. But when it does, for example, when a dog barks during a movie, the animal can be excluded.

If you have further questions about service animals or other requirements of the ADA, you may call the U.S. Department of Justice's toll-free ADA Information Line at 800-514-0301 (voice) or 800-514-0383 (TDD).




July 1996
Reproduction of this document is encouraged.


Here is more. http://www.ada.gov/service_animals_2010.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Pay attention to the definition of Service Dog.

[Charles L. Cotton]

I didn't know that you *could* deny access to service dogs, regardless of type.

Until 1/1/14, a business could deny entry by any dog other than those helping the blind.

Chas.

Charles,

Can you give me a reference on that change? I would like to see the revision. Prior there were regulations that prohibited denial of entry to public facilities (definition below). We raised a service dog and had to challenge the local DPS license office Sargent because she threatened to have my wife arrested if she didn't leave the office with the dog.

http://www.statutes.legis.state.tx.us/d ... HR.121.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

(5) "Public facilities" includes a street, highway, sidewalk, walkway, common carrier, airplane, motor vehicle, railroad train, motor bus, streetcar, boat, or any other public conveyance or mode of transportation; a hotel, motel, or other place of lodging; a public building maintained by any unit or subdivision of government; a building to which the general public is invited; a college dormitory or other educational facility; a restaurant or other place where food is offered for sale to the public; and any other place of public accommodation, amusement, convenience, or resort to which the general public or any classification of persons from the general public is regularly, normally, or customarily invited.

I have no idea what the bill number was or what Code it modified. I just saw three different TV news reports about vets being barred from restaurants and that this violated a new law that was effective 1/1/14.

Chas.

[Charles L. Cotton]

The only reason I asked about the new Texas law requiring businesses to allow vets with service dogs to enter was in response to a Member's statement about private property rights and 30.06 signs. It's my fault that this thread has gotten way off topic and I apologize.

I realize and respect that there are two diverse opinions about the scope of private property rights. One camp feels that private property rights should be absolute and without any government control or regulation, even if it is business property. The other camp accepts the fact that business property is different from residential property and that government safety regulations are reasonable.

I won't belabor the point since I've posted this a few times before. People have a right to expect less regulation on their homes since it is not open to the general public. Business owners ask people to come into their property for the owners financial benefit. Business property is already regulated and the level of regulation varies by jurisdiction. The requirement to post a 30.06 sign is the least onerous of the many regulations business owners face, so I don't see it as any imposition. I would go so far as to say owners of business property should not be able to bar entry by armed CHLs, just as they cannot bar entry to LEOs, service dogs, wheelchairs, Baptists, etc.

Chas.

[SewTexas]

The only reason I asked about the new Texas law requiring businesses to allow vets with service dogs to enter was in response to a Member's statement about private property rights and 30.06 signs. It's my fault that this thread has gotten way off topic and I apologize.

I realize and respect that there are two diverse opinions about the scope of private property rights. One camp feels that private property rights should be absolute and without any government control or regulation, even if it is business property. The other camp accepts the fact that business property is different from residential property and that government safety regulations are reasonable.

I won't belabor the point since I've posted this a few times before. People have a right to expect less regulation on their homes since it is not open to the general public. Business owners ask people to come into their property for the owners financial benefit. Business property is already regulated and the level of regulation varies by jurisdiction. The requirement to post a 30.06 sign is the least onerous of the many regulations business owners face, so I don't see it as any imposition. I would go so far as to say owners of business property should not be able to bar entry by armed CHLs, just as they cannot bar entry to LEOs, service dogs, wheelchairs, Baptists, etc.

Chas.

Charles,

was it a Texas law? or was it a fix to the ADA? ...or...was it an adjustment to the Texas law to meet the ADA? I know things were changed over the last year to take into account the growing use of PTSD dogs and allergy dogs and such, so I'm not sure which law what changed when. I have a friend who is in the process of getting an allergy dog. so we're learning all about the laws.

[jimlongley]

Grapevine mills mall: thinking about this, wouldn't it be better to contact all the merchants located there and explain why you won't visit their establishments?

Did that years ago, most of the responses were non-commital, while those from the stores with outside entrances actually encouraged me to visit them because they didn't have any signage.