Did I do the right thing?

[Jumping Frog]

Note there is nothing in the law that says one has to see the sign or knowingly trespass. The sign simply needs to be properly posted.

Wait, what? How are you supposed to not do something you didn't know you were doing?

Correct. This is in contrast to the language as written in some other states provisions for posted premises.

There are different "culpable mental states", such are negligently, recklessly, knowingly, and intentionally. Some states allow teeny-tiny little postage stamp "no guns" signs but then qualify it that the licensee must "knowingly" trespass.

In contrast, Texas requires a huge ugly sign but then does not specify the culpable mental state. It assumes the sign is sufficiently large and conspicuous that a reasonable person is on notice that armed trespassing is not allowed. Thus proving the licensee knew about the sign is not an element of the crime that must be proven at trial.

[srothstein]

Texas always requires a culpable mental state. There is a clause in the law that says so and then provides that if a required mental state is not stated in the section, intentional, knowing, or reckless shall be proof. So negligence is not acceptable as a mental state for criminal trespass conviction. The definition of reckless is that the deviation of the failure to act with the normal standard of care about your actions is gross enough that an ordinary person would not do so under those circumstances.

I take this to mean that there is no requirement that you specifically have seen the sign, but that the sign must be so visible that the average person would have seen it. This is also part of the conspicuous posting requirement. You are not to be expected to search for a sign, but if the average person paying reasonable attention to his surroundings would see it, then it applies to you.

As an aside, Texas does this same thing with other trespass laws. For example, painting a purple stripe on a fence or in the woods is enough notice to not trespass. There are some requirements for the stripe (size, height, and how far apart they need to be) but there is nor requirement to show that the person actually saw the stripe. And, if you think about it, how many people know a purple stripe means "do not enter?" at least the 30.06 sign is clear in its meaning to everyone.

[rockinar]

This happened on Thursday and I thought about it some more this evening. I inadvertently got myself in a bit of a catch-22 with my firearm and thought it would be interesting to see what others would have done in my exact position. Thursday morning my wife went to her doctor after dropping my son off at school because she had been experiencing some abdominal pain. We have one car and she drove herself while I stayed home to work. She called saying the Doctor was sending her to the ER to get x-rays and a CT scan to make sure it wasn't her appendix, and she was worried so she asked if I could go up there to be with her. I was already dressed and (as is my habit) was wearing my firearm. I called a neighbor who gladly drove me to the hospital and dropped me off at the main entrance to the ER. As I was walking up to the door, I saw a nice big fat 30.06 sign. So now I'm stranded outside in the cold, the neighbor drove off, my wife didn't answer her phone, and I couldn't go in. I could see our car as she parked close to the entrance. I just decided that I would go in, quietly get the car keys from my wife, and go back out to the car to disarm. Of course nothing happened. I went to her room where the nurse was running her I.V. and I stood patiently to the side until I could get to her keys. I was cringing inside hoping my wife either wouldn't pick up on why I needed to go back to the car, or would realize and know that she needed to keep her mouth shut. A couple of minutes later, I snuck out, disarmed and came back in, no one the wiser.

Looking back, I don't know what else I could have done other than call the front desk and have them retrieve the keys from my wife, but I really didn't want to explain myself or raise any eyebrows.

And regarding the 30.06 sign, it wasn't there last time we went to that hospital and I was in a bit of a rush to get to my wife so I didn't think to disarm before hand or check the 30.06 site first.

So, did I do the right thing? What would you have done?

Concealed is concealed. I might have just walked past it until I could do something. But you KNEW you were going to a hospital. Anyone that's taken the CHL class knows a hospital is off limits for CHL.

[jmra]

But you KNEW you were going to a hospital. Anyone that's taken the CHL class knows a hospital is off limits for CHL.

Wrong. Please tell what leads you to believe this.

I assume you are referring to PC 46.035 (b) (4) which prohibits carry in hospitals licensed under chp 241.

Scroll down a little...

(I) Subsections (b)(4), (b)(5), (b)(6), and (c) do not apply if the actor was not given effective notice under Section 30.06.

Which means that unless given 30.06 notice you can carry in a hospital (unless it is deemed a school) and a Church and an amusement park.

[Rrash]

To the OP, I think what you did, hypothetically, was just fine.

I had somewhat of a similar situation a couple of years ago, where my family and I took the train into downtown Dallas, and almost had to go the the ER. Here is the thread from that discussion: viewtopic.php?f=7&t=57865

It seems likely that security would secure your firearm while you're in the hospital, but I would sure try to avoid having to talk to them if at all possible.