Urgent: XDs recall...

[jmra]

I got my 2 XDs 45s back at the end of December. The triggers were heavy with a long pull (felt like I was pulling on a double action revolver). I put 250 rounds through each pistol and did lots of dry firing. The smoothed out a little but still a long heavy pull (don't know how heavy as my trigger gauge does not go that high). I called Springfield Armory about this today. I told them that the trigger is significantly different than what is was went I bought them and that, if they had a trigger like that when I examined them in the store, I would not have bought them. Since the pistol trigger is so different, I asked for my money back. They said no to that. I was told to check the trigger pull. The spec for a recall pistol is 5.5 to 7.7 pounds. If it is above that, they will issue a call tag and work on the trigger. I told them that I did not want to send them in just to get a trigger that is 7.6 pounds. She assured me that they would take them down to 5.5 pounds if I had to send them back. She said it would only take two weeks as it will go to a different department than the recall department. She also stated that they did trigger jobs on XDs pistols and could take them down to 4 pounds but, because of the recall, they are not doing any "special" trigger jobs now.

I will need to borrow a gauge from a friend to see what I have. If they are over 7.7 pounds, they are going back to SA. Will update when I know more.

This is what I'm afraid of. If mine comes back like this I will probably sell it and move on.

I invested $18 in a replacement spring kit from Powder River Precision that is supposed to improve the trigger action substantially. I'm still waiting for it to be delivered.

I'll let you know what I think about it once I get it installed and tested.

Thank you. Look forward to hearing what difference it makes.

[hpcatx]

Finally got mine back yesterday afternoon. I'm going to try and get to the range this weekend to check out the trigger. Seems okay from the dry firing I've done (no gauge), but the real test will be there. Many thanks for the recommendation on fixing the trigger if it seems too spongy or too hard of a pull!

[hpcatx]

Follow-up range report from my last post...

I did notice some sponginess the first few magazines. I think somewhere between seventy-five and a hundred rounds down range that started to smooth out some, although I definitely notice the break more than before the repair. All in all the trigger is probably something with which I can live.

What concerns me is the change in perceived recoil. Rather than pushing back on my hand, I feel like there's now more muzzle flip. Maybe it's just in my head, but I'd swear it feels different. Does anyone else have this same experience? That was one of the things I liked most about the XDS when I first got it... for only a 3.3 in barrel, there seemed to be little muzzle flip.

[The Annoyed Man]

Follow-up range report from my last post...

I did notice some sponginess the first few magazines. I think somewhere between seventy-five and a hundred rounds down range that started to smooth out some, although I definitely notice the break more than before the repair. All in all the trigger is probably something with which I can live.

What concerns me is the change in perceived recoil. Rather than pushing back on my hand, I feel like there's now more muzzle flip. Maybe it's just in my head, but I'd swear it feels different. Does anyone else have this same experience? That was one of the things I liked most about the XDS when I first got it... for only a 3.3 in barrel, there seemed to be little muzzle flip.

I can't imagine why the recoil characteristics would have changed. It's the same caliber. It's the same recoil mechanism. It's the same barrel length. Have you shot any other .45s while it was out for repair?

BTW, I haven't had mine to the range yet since I got it back the other day, but I have dry fired it a bunch, and it doesn't seem much different from what I had before.

[Excaliber]

I got my 2 XDs 45s back at the end of December. The triggers were heavy with a long pull (felt like I was pulling on a double action revolver). I put 250 rounds through each pistol and did lots of dry firing. The smoothed out a little but still a long heavy pull (don't know how heavy as my trigger gauge does not go that high). I called Springfield Armory about this today. I told them that the trigger is significantly different than what is was went I bought them and that, if they had a trigger like that when I examined them in the store, I would not have bought them. Since the pistol trigger is so different, I asked for my money back. They said no to that. I was told to check the trigger pull. The spec for a recall pistol is 5.5 to 7.7 pounds. If it is above that, they will issue a call tag and work on the trigger. I told them that I did not want to send them in just to get a trigger that is 7.6 pounds. She assured me that they would take them down to 5.5 pounds if I had to send them back. She said it would only take two weeks as it will go to a different department than the recall department. She also stated that they did trigger jobs on XDs pistols and could take them down to 4 pounds but, because of the recall, they are not doing any "special" trigger jobs now.

I will need to borrow a gauge from a friend to see what I have. If they are over 7.7 pounds, they are going back to SA. Will update when I know more.

This is what I'm afraid of. If mine comes back like this I will probably sell it and move on.

I invested $18 in a replacement spring kit from Powder River Precision that is supposed to improve the trigger action substantially. I'm still waiting for it to be delivered.

I'll let you know what I think about it once I get it installed and tested.

Thank you. Look forward to hearing what difference it makes.

I installed the Powder River Precision spring kit on my upgraded XDS today. While I had things apart, I also polished all the engagement surfaces.

Result: trigger pull reduced from an uneven 7 1/2 pounds down to a very smooth 6 pounds.

I'm satisfied that it was worth the effort, but it was a LOT of work. Reassembling the sear housing group is a challenge that would be much easier with about two more hands with real small fingers. I also had to make a tool to position the grip safety spring properly.

There are 4 videos by Tacti-Cool that were very helpful, with a couple of cautions. The first three videos are posted on a single web page, but they're out of order. The one shown as #2 is actually #3 and vice versa.

Don't follow the instructions in #3 without viewing the fourth video first. Video #3 shows the trigger group disassembly / assembly for the original XDS. Several parts have changed significantly, and so have the techniques for reassembling the unit. The fourth video (which is not referenced on the page with the first three) does a good job of describing the differences, but you need to be aware of them before you get into the project or you'll spend hours trying every possible configuration of parts interaction.

Don't ask me how I know this.

Red flag warning: If you're the kind of guy whose tool kit consists of a hammer with a loose head and a couple of rusty screwdrivers, do not attempt this project. It requires some special tools (e.g. roll pin punches) and making an improvised spring positioning tool from a small screwdriver. Lots of experience disassembling and reassembling devices with lots of small parts, pins, and springs (like guns or locks) is extremely helpful as background.

[hpcatx]

I can't imagine why the recoil characteristics would have changed. It's the same caliber. It's the same recoil mechanism. It's the same barrel length. Have you shot any other .45s while it was out for repair?

BTW, I haven't had mine to the range yet since I got it back the other day, but I have dry fired it a bunch, and it doesn't seem much different from what I had before.

TAM, I completely agree... hence my comment that the perceived change in recoil might just be in my head. That said, I wonder if the changes to sear (and the arm from the grip safety that sits across it) could have an effect. I did not, in fact, shoot any other .45s while mine was out for repair. This is the first .45 I've owned and I only made solo trips to the range and practiced with my 9mms -- so that could very well factor into what I was feeling. I didn't think there was a noticeable difference when I dry fired mine, so please let me know your reactions after you get to the range with yours.

Excaliber, thanks for the detailed discussions of your new trigger. This is definitely of interest to me, although I'd probably have to let someone more skilled than I (i.e. a real gunsmith) do the work.

[Excaliber]

I can't imagine why the recoil characteristics would have changed. It's the same caliber. It's the same recoil mechanism. It's the same barrel length. Have you shot any other .45s while it was out for repair?

BTW, I haven't had mine to the range yet since I got it back the other day, but I have dry fired it a bunch, and it doesn't seem much different from what I had before.

TAM, I completely agree... hence my comment that the perceived change in recoil might just be in my head. That said, I wonder if the changes to sear (and the arm from the grip safety that sits across it) could have an effect. I did not, in fact, shoot any other .45s while mine was out for repair. This is the first .45 I've owned and I only made solo trips to the range and practiced with my 9mms -- so that could very well factor into what I was feeling. I didn't think there was a noticeable difference when I dry fired mine, so please let me know your reactions after you get to the range with yours.

Excaliber, thanks for the detailed discussions of your new trigger. This is definitely of interest to me, although I'd probably have to let someone more skilled than I (i.e. a real gunsmith) do the work.

Another option is to wait until Springfield's recall workload slows down and send your gun to them for the 4 pound trigger treatment. That's got to involve some skillful modification of engagement surfaces that goes beyond just a little polishing.

[LTUME1978]

Another update on my adventure with the XDs. In an earlier phone conversation with SA, they told me that is was possible to get the triggers down to 4 pounds. However, after I was able to get my triggers tested (both above factory spec), I had another conversation with them to get a call tag. This time, they told me that there was no way to get the post recall triggers down to even 5.5 lbs much less 4 pounds. After some conversation, they had me talk to the guy that does the work on these triggers. He told me that about the best he could get the post recall triggers is 6.5 pounds. I asked what he would do to accomplish this and he told me lots of polishing. Both pistols are up there now for whatever they can do to them to improve them. I will update when they get back.

My biggest complaint with the post recall pistols is the loooong pull of the trigger. It feels almost like a double action revolver. I will shoot these when they get back and see how the splits come out with a shot timer. If I can't maintain 0.3 seconds or better with reasonable accuracy, it will be decision time.

[Excaliber]

Another update on my adventure with the XDs. In an earlier phone conversation with SA, they told me that is was possible to get the triggers down to 4 pounds. However, after I was able to get my triggers tested (both above factory spec), I had another conversation with them to get a call tag. This time, they told me that there was no way to get the post recall triggers down to even 5.5 lbs much less 4 pounds. After some conversation, they had me talk to the guy that does the work on these triggers. He told me that about the best he could get the post recall triggers is 6.5 pounds. I asked what he would do to accomplish this and he told me lots of polishing. Both pistols are up there now for whatever they can do to them to improve them. I will update when they get back.

My biggest complaint with the post recall pistols is the loooong pull of the trigger. It feels almost like a double action revolver. I will shoot these when they get back and see how the splits come out with a shot timer. If I can't maintain 0.3 seconds or better with reasonable accuracy, it will be decision time.

Well, that pretty well ends thoughts of a 4 pound pull.

I rechecked mine and it is just about at 6.5 pounds but very smooth. (I use an RCBS spring trigger pull gauge that's not as precise as the digital ones - you have to average a few readings to reach a conclusion.) I got that by polishing the firing pin safety plunger (in a drill with very fine crocus cloth) and carefully stoning the engagement surfaces on the striker, disconnector, sear and trigger bar. It was easy and made a much bigger difference in smoothness than pull weight.

I find the pull weight doesn't feel bad at all once it's made really smooth. The length of pull, of course, remains the same.

[LTUME1978]

My two XDs pistols came back this afternoon from their second trip to the factory. I am very disappointed. Nothing was polished and the trigger pull is still high (will have to borrow a different scale as mine does not go high enough). The paperwork with the pistols states that they replaced the trigger with safety, the sear and the improved disconnector on both pistols. I am wondering why they left the factory from the recall if these parts were bad. I will be on the phone with Springfield tomorrow for another call tag to get them back to the factory for the polishing/trigger pull reduction that was promised on the last trip to Springfield. This is turning into a project that is more trouble than it is worth.

[jmra]

This is turning into a project that is more trouble than it is worth.

Exactly why I sold mine (with full disclosure that it had not been "degraded") instead of going through this whole ordeal. Will only buy tried and true products in the future.

[Excaliber]

I'm quite happy with the trigger pull on mine after installation of the spring kit and the engagement surface polishing.

Although the spring kit installation was an ordeal because of incomplete information on takedown and reassembly of the upgraded guns, once I figured out how everything goes together I could do it again pretty easily.

I knew when I bought the gun that it would be more like a Glock than a 1911. The size, caliber, and ergonomics were and still are a great package in my view, and the trigger action is now much better than an out of the box Glock (but very similar to a Glock that has had similar work done).

I need to get to the range this weekend to make certain it's still as reliable as it was.

Stay tuned.

[LTUME1978]

Excaliber,

I am hoping that mine will work out for the same reasons you expressed. They are small pistols that pack a lot of punch. I talked to SA this afternoon. They were very nice but not much they could tell me until I can check the pull of the triggers. I did go out to PSC this afternoon after work and put 100 rounds through each pistol. No issues with reliability with either one. I was shooting at 7 yards, trying to keep all shots on small paper plates that are about the size of the "zero down" section of an IDPA target. I was using my shot timer and would draw on the beep. The course of fire was to draw and fire two shots on one paper plate then transition to the second plate and fire two more shots. The best I could do (keeping all shots on the plates) was 3.16 seconds. More normal was 3.6 - 3.8 seconds. My best split was 0.32 seconds but most were in the 0.4 - 0.5 range. Transitions ran in the 0.5s. My first shot was also slow (1.60 - 1.9 seconds from the beep to the first shot). All of these times were when I kept all four shots on the plates (more than 50% of the time). I had to really focus on my trigger pull to keep from pulling the shots just off the plate low and left. I may be expecting too much from such a small pistol. My normal splits run 0.2s with my M&P 9 Pro and my draw and transition is faster as well.

What are you seeing with your XDs now that you have the parts polished up? How much are you giving up in accuracy/speed vs a full size pistol? I did notice that using the extended magazine instead of the regular magazine helped to improve speed/controllability a little but I will want to carry with the regular magazine most of the time for best concealment.

[Excaliber]

Excaliber,

I am hoping that mine will work out for the same reasons you expressed. They are small pistols that pack a lot of punch. I talked to SA this afternoon. They were very nice but not much they could tell me until I can check the pull of the triggers. I did go out to PSC this afternoon after work and put 100 rounds through each pistol. No issues with reliability with either one. I was shooting at 7 yards, trying to keep all shots on small paper plates that are about the size of the "zero down" section of an IDPA target. I was using my shot timer and would draw on the beep. The course of fire was to draw and fire two shots on one paper plate then transition to the second plate and fire two more shots. The best I could do (keeping all shots on the plates) was 3.16 seconds. More normal was 3.6 - 3.8 seconds. My best split was 0.32 seconds but most were in the 0.4 - 0.5 range. Transitions ran in the 0.5s. My first shot was also slow (1.60 - 1.9 seconds from the beep to the first shot). All of these times were when I kept all four shots on the plates (more than 50% of the time). I had to really focus on my trigger pull to keep from pulling the shots just off the plate low and left. I may be expecting too much from such a small pistol. My normal splits run 0.2s with my M&P 9 Pro and my draw and transition is faster as well.

What are you seeing with your XDs now that you have the parts polished up? How much are you giving up in accuracy/speed vs a full size pistol? I did notice that using the extended magazine instead of the regular magazine helped to improve speed/controllability a little but I will want to carry with the regular magazine most of the time for best concealment.

I haven't had it to the range yet.

I don't expect it to be quite as fast as the 1911's that I usually carry, but I bought it to fill a niche - a full power striker fired pocket gun that doesn't print in cargo shorts during the summer.

[Excaliber]

Excaliber,

I am hoping that mine will work out for the same reasons you expressed. They are small pistols that pack a lot of punch. I talked to SA this afternoon. They were very nice but not much they could tell me until I can check the pull of the triggers. I did go out to PSC this afternoon after work and put 100 rounds through each pistol. No issues with reliability with either one. I was shooting at 7 yards, trying to keep all shots on small paper plates that are about the size of the "zero down" section of an IDPA target. I was using my shot timer and would draw on the beep. The course of fire was to draw and fire two shots on one paper plate then transition to the second plate and fire two more shots. The best I could do (keeping all shots on the plates) was 3.16 seconds. More normal was 3.6 - 3.8 seconds. My best split was 0.32 seconds but most were in the 0.4 - 0.5 range. Transitions ran in the 0.5s. My first shot was also slow (1.60 - 1.9 seconds from the beep to the first shot). All of these times were when I kept all four shots on the plates (more than 50% of the time). I had to really focus on my trigger pull to keep from pulling the shots just off the plate low and left. I may be expecting too much from such a small pistol. My normal splits run 0.2s with my M&P 9 Pro and my draw and transition is faster as well.

What are you seeing with your XDs now that you have the parts polished up? How much are you giving up in accuracy/speed vs a full size pistol? I did notice that using the extended magazine instead of the regular magazine helped to improve speed/controllability a little but I will want to carry with the regular magazine most of the time for best concealment.

I finally got my XDs out to the range today, and I'm quite happy with the results.

It's as accurate as I am, and shot to shot recovery is similar to that with my 3" Kimber 1911 but not quite as fast as my all steel 4 and 5 inch 1911's. Light guns that spit out big bullets always give up a little in this area, but I'm willing to accept that.

The trigger is now quite smooth with the gun's relatively long pull, and it's not hard to work with at all. The range rules wouldn't let me work from the holster or go for speed, but I don't see any reason it wouldn't meet my requirements in those areas if I do my part.

Trigger weight now is between 6 and 6.5 pounds after my polishing of the engagement surfaces and installation of the Powder River Precision spring kit. It varies in this range from pull to pull. I expect it will settle down to a repeatable number after a couple of hundred rounds.

I'm plenty happy with it. I think it's the best striker fired pistol of this power in its size class.