There was some competition, but DRT was already taken.Charles L. Cotton wrote:They couldn't have chosen a worse name for this cartridge!Jumping Frog wrote:I've never seen so much excitement about a new bullet based on a single cheesy video.
Visualize a DA playing that video and holding that bullet up in front of a jury. I don't want to defend that!
I'd rather defend tried and true ammo used by police departments all over the country. "I used that round because I believed the people making police purchasing decisions know a heck of a lot more than I do about ammo".
Chas.
New RIP Ammo
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Re: New RIP Ammo
Excaliber
"An unarmed man can only flee from evil, and evil is not overcome by fleeing from it." - Jeff Cooper
I am not a lawyer. Nothing in any of my posts should be construed as legal or professional advice.
"An unarmed man can only flee from evil, and evil is not overcome by fleeing from it." - Jeff Cooper
I am not a lawyer. Nothing in any of my posts should be construed as legal or professional advice.
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Re: New RIP Ammo
I wonder how long it will take the NEJM to issue a study about how many surgeons have been injured by shards of this ammo while attempting to save gangbangers' lives in the ER, and the AMA to denounce it as "Shoot to Kill Ammo" instead of shoot to wound.
Memories of Black Talons abide.
But if it really works as advertised, I want some in .45ACP for me, in .380ACP for my wife, and of course 12 gauge for the house.
Memories of Black Talons abide.
But if it really works as advertised, I want some in .45ACP for me, in .380ACP for my wife, and of course 12 gauge for the house.
Real gun control, carrying 24/7/365
Re: New RIP Ammo
One of the worst aftermaths from shooting I ever saw was from a gang fight with marshmallow guns. This was after a church youth choir lock-in party and the carpets were covered in smashed marshmallows. It was a horrible mess to clean up. Hopefully if someone gets hit with one of your rounds they don't ask me to testify on how much destruction they can do.ELB wrote:When I invent my new super-duper killer round, I am going to name it "Marshmallow," and the box is going to come with nice friendly bunnies on it. Let the DA waive that around in the courtroom and talk about how I shot somebody with 17 Marshmallows...
Keith
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Psalm 82:3-4
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Re: New RIP Ammo
I will reserve judgment until someone other than the guys selling the stuff do a legit evaluation...
A man will fight harder for his interests than for his rights.
- Napoleon Bonaparte
PFC Paul E. Ison USMC 1916-2001
- Napoleon Bonaparte
PFC Paul E. Ison USMC 1916-2001
Re: New RIP Ammo
I see your point about it being a good legal defense but practically speaking, using ammo or guns just because the police use them is not a great strategy. For years many departments used .38 specials with crappy ammo. Massad Ayoob has an informative article on the subject here http://www.backwoodshome.com/articles2/ayoob93.html.Jumping Frog wrote:I've never seen so much excitement about a new bullet based on a single cheesy video.
Visualize a DA playing that video and holding that bullet up in front of a jury. I don't want to defend that!
I'd rather defend tried and true ammo used by police departments all over the country. "I used that round because I believed the people making police purchasing decisions know a heck of a lot more than I do about ammo".
Plus you get politics involved like in NY where they have the 11 pound trigger on their glocks to make it "safer". Never mind that a hard trigger pull kills accuracy.
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Re: New RIP Ammo
Point taken, but... using ammo that both meets objective high performance criteria that satisfies a knowledgeable user and is widely used by police is a winning approach, both tactically and legally.tobasco wrote:I see your point about it being a good legal defense but practically speaking, using ammo or guns just because the police use them is not a great strategy. For years many departments used .38 specials with crappy ammo. Massad Ayoob has an informative article on the subject here http://www.backwoodshome.com/articles2/ayoob93.html.Jumping Frog wrote:I've never seen so much excitement about a new bullet based on a single cheesy video.
Visualize a DA playing that video and holding that bullet up in front of a jury. I don't want to defend that!
I'd rather defend tried and true ammo used by police departments all over the country. "I used that round because I believed the people making police purchasing decisions know a heck of a lot more than I do about ammo".
Plus you get politics involved like in NY where they have the 11 pound trigger on their glocks to make it "safer". Never mind that a hard trigger pull kills accuracy.
It has the added advantage of ongoing, street realistic performance testing during use in actual defensive encounters.
Excaliber
"An unarmed man can only flee from evil, and evil is not overcome by fleeing from it." - Jeff Cooper
I am not a lawyer. Nothing in any of my posts should be construed as legal or professional advice.
"An unarmed man can only flee from evil, and evil is not overcome by fleeing from it." - Jeff Cooper
I am not a lawyer. Nothing in any of my posts should be construed as legal or professional advice.
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Re: New RIP Ammo
No, I am talking about mainstream self defense ammo like Speer Gold Dots, Federal HST, or Winchester Ranger as brand names, as they dominate the police market. I am not talking about New York triggers or .38 SP.tobasco wrote:I see your point about it being a good legal defense but practically speaking, using ammo or guns just because the police use them is not a great strategy.
-Just call me Bob . . . Texas Firearms Coalition, NRA Life member, TSRA Life member, and OFCC Patron member
This froggie ain't boiling! Shall not be infringed! Μολών Λαβέ
This froggie ain't boiling! Shall not be infringed! Μολών Λαβέ
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Re: New RIP Ammo
That is about I would have expected Andy. Thanks for the video.
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Re: New RIP Ammo
AndyC has convinced me to switch to carry my .22LR pistol.03Lightningrocks wrote:That is about I would have expected Andy. Thanks for the video.
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Re: New RIP Ammo
Where I used to work they weren't impressed with the performance of HydraShoks so they did some testing and went with HSTs. They did the same thing when they switched service pistols. In addition to range staff they took the people who qualified the best and those that had trouble qualifying to try the pistols.
Now in addition to the video that was posted here is a link to an article about it. They guy was able to get the rounds to jam on a Glock 19.
http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2014/0 ... phase-one/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Now in addition to the video that was posted here is a link to an article about it. They guy was able to get the rounds to jam on a Glock 19.
http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2014/0 ... phase-one/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Sent to you from Galt's Gulch.
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Re: New RIP Ammo
I was recently asked to serve as a subject matter expert for an interview by a major magazine on the G2 bullet.
I declined because the only information I had found to that point was what looked to me like overly dramatized hype from the manufacturer that was not informative about the ammunition's performance against standardized tests that would allow the formation of a valid opinion.
I'm not surprised at how the tests cited here turned out.
I declined because the only information I had found to that point was what looked to me like overly dramatized hype from the manufacturer that was not informative about the ammunition's performance against standardized tests that would allow the formation of a valid opinion.
I'm not surprised at how the tests cited here turned out.
Excaliber
"An unarmed man can only flee from evil, and evil is not overcome by fleeing from it." - Jeff Cooper
I am not a lawyer. Nothing in any of my posts should be construed as legal or professional advice.
"An unarmed man can only flee from evil, and evil is not overcome by fleeing from it." - Jeff Cooper
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Re: New RIP Ammo
I learned that lesson when I saw the results of a police shooting of a felon in a vehicle with Glaser ammo.AndyC wrote:Like I said earlier - friends don't let friends carry pre-fragmented rubbish.
The officer who the BG was trying to run down got off 5 shots using the most definitely unauthorized ammunition. Two hit the windshield, one hit the passenger door just below the window, one hit the passenger window, and one hit the trunk.
The hits on the door and trunk made impressive holes in the outer sheet metal - and did not penetrate the inner sheet metal at all.
The two rounds that hit the windshield made marks but didn't penetrate the polymer inner layer.
The round that hit the passenger window was the only one that made it into the passenger compartment. Had the officer been using standard duty ammo, this would have been a fight stopper for sure. However, the Glaser slug broke up on the glass and showered the BG with pepper flake size shot. He kept driving.
When he was stopped and arrested, he looked like he had the measles on one side of his face, but was otherwise none the worse for wear.
The fact is that there's no way to get the deep penetration and large wound channel of a big, heavy slug when you start out with a light projectile that's designed to shed a lot of its mass as soon as it hits something. Expanding hollowpoints go deep enough to reach vital organs relatively reliably and, when they do expand, create more significant wound channels.
Whenever I'm asked about the latest prefrag miracle bullet, I tell folks I'll stick with my proven hollowpoints, thank you very much.
Excaliber
"An unarmed man can only flee from evil, and evil is not overcome by fleeing from it." - Jeff Cooper
I am not a lawyer. Nothing in any of my posts should be construed as legal or professional advice.
"An unarmed man can only flee from evil, and evil is not overcome by fleeing from it." - Jeff Cooper
I am not a lawyer. Nothing in any of my posts should be construed as legal or professional advice.
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Re: New RIP Ammo
I am no expert on ammo so I figured I would ask. I had thought one of the original purposes of fragmentation ammo was to help alleviate the concern of a bullet going through a wall or even a BG and striking an innocent bystander.
It appears they are now trying to market it as some kind of "exploding" bullet.
It appears they are now trying to market it as some kind of "exploding" bullet.
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