i drew my weapon tonight

[Jumping Frog]

I am going to be the contriarian. Your CHL class includes non violent dispute resolution for just these types of incidents. What would have done had he kept walking towards you?

Here is when deadly force is justified;

Texas Penal Code
Sec. 9.32. DEADLY FORCE IN DEFENSE OF PERSON. (a) A person is justified in using deadly force against another:
(1) if the actor would be justified in using force against the other under Section 9.31; and
(2) when and to the degree the actor reasonably believes the deadly force is immediately necessary:
(A) to protect the actor against the other's use or attempted use of unlawful deadly force; or
(B) to prevent the other's imminent commission of aggravated kidnapping, murder, sexual assault, aggravated sexual assault, robbery, or aggravated robbery.

In my opinion, pulling your gun was premature. I worry when our first response at an angry person is to grab our gun. We need other tools. If the only tool a carpenter carries is a hammer, eventually every problem begins to look like a nail.

If this line of discussion further develops, as suggested by Excaliber, I would also like to point out that the statute changes last September 1st regarding failure to conceal. Under the old law, deadly force had to be justified before displaying a handgun, or it was a crime under TPC §46.035.

Under the new law, if ordinary (non-deadly) force is justified, then displaying a handgun is no longer a crime under TPC §46.035.

So for the above discussion, it is also interesting to debate whether ordinary force under Sec. 9.31 was justified as well as discussing justification for deadly force under Sec. 9.32. After all, displaying a weapon to create an apprehension that someone will use deadly force if necessary, does not constitute the use of deadly force per Sec. 9.04. THREATS AS JUSTIFIABLE FORCE.

As I look at it, when someone exits their car and comes towards my car while on total rage, it is my belief that their attempt to forcefully enter my vehicle is imminent. Certainly, the instant someone tries to lift the door handle or break open a window, that imminent attempt just became an actual attempt to forcibly enter my vehicle. Responding to this becomes immediately necessary.

I am not willing to actually shoot someone yet for walking towards my car, but I am willing to use the threat of force to counter their threat of force.

[Oldgringo]

It's easy to second guess how a person reacts in a stressful situation after the fact.
Maybe there could have been some improvements, but the OP did a terrific job.

[texanjoker]

I won't critique anything since it worked for you. I too would have liked to have been the fly on the wall. I have responded to a LOT of road rages and even witnessed some before taking action. In my experience they usually they escalate to the point both drivers have done something to antagonize the other driver. Not saying this happened in your case, just what I've seen working as a LEO. I am glad it worked out for you and nobody was hurt. You might consider an open record request for the CAD (computer aided dispatch) entry from the sheriff's office to see what was written in their permanent record. This could come up later in a background investigation should you apply for a position that requires one, or even become involved in another incident.

[SewTexas]

I think you did just fine. apparently going the speed limit and stopping at stop signs made him mad.

Had it been me, a woman, I probably, no, I would not have opened the door, nor would I have allowed him any access to me, I would have had the passenger on the phone to 911 and would have probably slammed my car into reverse...and I can cut a tight U turn.

[jbarn]

I am going to be the contriarian. Your CHL class includes non violent dispute resolution for just these types of incidents. What would have done had he kept walking towards you?

Here is when deadly force is justified;

Texas Penal Code
Sec. 9.32. DEADLY FORCE IN DEFENSE OF PERSON. (a) A person is justified in using deadly force against another:
(1) if the actor would be justified in using force against the other under Section 9.31; and
(2) when and to the degree the actor reasonably believes the deadly force is immediately necessary:
(A) to protect the actor against the other's use or attempted use of unlawful deadly force; or
(B) to prevent the other's imminent commission of aggravated kidnapping, murder, sexual assault, aggravated sexual assault, robbery, or aggravated robbery.

In my opinion, pulling your gun was premature. I worry when our first response at an angry person is to grab our gun. We need other tools. If the only tool a carpenter carries is a hammer, eventually every problem begins to look like a nail.

I have to respectfully disagree here. We have made a choice to carry and our weapon of choice is a tool. These are exactly the types of situations that cause us to carry.
To the OP, I think you did the right thing, especially if you never revealed your weapon to him.
However, since this actually happened last night, there remains a chance that there could still be some ongoing legal investigation. With this chance in mind, I am not sure I would have posted this soon.

So your only tool for a person yelling is your gun? How about a person who pushes you? Shoot him? I ask these questions to provoke thought.

[rotor]

I think you did good. Had you been in NY and the same situation would have happened you might have had to run over the guy with your car to escape. Racing backwards in your car can be a very difficult manuever for the average driver. Also, this is not just a case of a guy yelling at you. He left his car while blocking the road and approaches you and your family in your car. Very provocative.

[WildBill]

So your only tool for a person yelling is your gun?

The guy was told to stop a least three times and it kept coming.

At this point he stepped out of his vehicle in an aggressive manner. I immediately put my car into "park", unholstered my weapon, took it off safe, and kept it at low ready behind the steering wheel. He started coming towards us

I opened my door and stated very loudly and clearly that I was armed, that I am not afraid to use my weapon if he approached us. I repeated statements like this several times. He stopped approaching our vehicle.

[gringo pistolero]

I won't critique anything since it worked for you. I too would have liked to have been the fly on the wall. I have responded to a LOT of road rages and even witnessed some before taking action. In my experience they usually they escalate to the point both drivers have done something to antagonize the other driver. Not saying this happened in your case, just what I've seen working as a LEO.

From the OP, it seems pretty clear that was the case here. The other driver seemed upset at the speed the OP was driving and the OP seemed upset at the following distance of the other driver. I'm in no way suggesting the other driver was reasonable, only that there was mutual antagonism that escalated before the threat of deadly force.

[Excaliber]

I am going to be the contriarian. Your CHL class includes non violent dispute resolution for just these types of incidents. What would have done had he kept walking towards you?

Here is when deadly force is justified;

Texas Penal Code
Sec. 9.32. DEADLY FORCE IN DEFENSE OF PERSON. (a) A person is justified in using deadly force against another:
(1) if the actor would be justified in using force against the other under Section 9.31; and
(2) when and to the degree the actor reasonably believes the deadly force is immediately necessary:
(A) to protect the actor against the other's use or attempted use of unlawful deadly force; or
(B) to prevent the other's imminent commission of aggravated kidnapping, murder, sexual assault, aggravated sexual assault, robbery, or aggravated robbery.

In my opinion, pulling your gun was premature. I worry when our first response at an angry person is to grab our gun. We need other tools. If the only tool a carpenter carries is a hammer, eventually every problem begins to look like a nail.

I have to respectfully disagree here. We have made a choice to carry and our weapon of choice is a tool. These are exactly the types of situations that cause us to carry.
To the OP, I think you did the right thing, especially if you never revealed your weapon to him.
However, since this actually happened last night, there remains a chance that there could still be some ongoing legal investigation. With this chance in mind, I am not sure I would have posted this soon.

So your only tool for a person yelling is your gun? How about a person who pushes you? Shoot him? I ask these questions to provoke thought.

The OP came up with a plan that was a good solution in my book because it succeeded in deescalating the confrontation without violence, injury, or legal issues, it had a Plan B in case the problem escalated, and it was approved as a good one by the officer who investigated the incident.

Of course that solution isn't the only possible one, and there may be a better approach.

Kindly help provoke thought by providing the solution you would have used in that situation so we can consider and perhaps learn from it.

[Oldgringo]

I'm too old to get in a scuffle.

[TomsTXCHL]

Good discussion, one that I would say was among the reasons I joined this forum.

I, too, am too old for any sort of physical scuffle...

Not sure how long the OP's been carrying, but it is clear from all the "Waiting..." here that there are many, many new CHL carry-ers coming-in to the populace who are not only new to carrying but many have never even touched a handgun before. To say that these types of situations (like the OP had) represent something VERY DIFFERENT from what newbies have experienced before may be an extreme understatement.

Reminds me a little bit of the annual Sturgis bike rallys where some people die every year. I don't know that they keep detailed records about the motorcycling accidents they have with respect to how long a party has been riding, but suffice to say there are many folks who buy bikes and ride them to Sturgis before they are truly ready (I've always said you need to survive your first 10K miles on your bike, after which no you are not "home free" but your chances of survival increase dramatically).

[OldGrumpy]

It's easy to second guess how a person reacts in a stressful situation after the fact.
Maybe there could have been some improvements, but the OP did a terrific job.

[03Lightningrocks]

I agree with how it was handled as well. The only thing I might add is that this post might be better put away until after you are sure the incident is closed. I would sure hate for some lawyer or DA to use this thread against you in some way.

If I am involved in a self defense situation, I won't be posting about it while I think there is still possible legal problems. I know first hand that even when justified, it can get very expensive defending your position.

[Excaliber]

I agree with how it was handled as well. The only thing I might add is that this post might be better put away until after you are sure the incident is closed. I would sure hate for some lawyer or DA to use this thread against you in some way.

If I am involved in a self defense situation, I won't be posting about it while I think there is still possible legal problems. I know first hand that even when justified, it can get very expensive defending your position.

I think that's a very low risk in this situation where a gun was not displayed, no shots were fired, there was no physical contact, and the investigating LEO told the complainant he had done the right thing, but it is something to consider before posting.

[The Annoyed Man]

To the OP: Excaliber's advice is always pretty spot on in these situations. I would add one further comment. . . . . once the other guy stepped out of his car and started walking toward yours, he was walking away from the most powerful weapon he had, while you were still inside the most powerful weapon you had. A car will hit someone orders of magnitude harder than a bullet will. Good for you that you got your sidearm drawn and available, but just remember that it wasn't the only weapon you had. The high-beams, like Excaliber said, could have been used to good effect too, but I think we can sometimes have the attitude that because we carry a gun, that gun is the best choice for self-defense in a given situation. It might just be. . . .but as in your case, you might also have other weapons you may not have considered. . . . .

. . . . .just something to think about. . . .