AD's don't just happen

[Chemist45]

Kentucky lawmaker has an accidental discharge in her office.

http://www.guns.com/2014/01/10/kentucky ... ens-video/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Pull quote: “I’m a gun owner. It happens.”

No ma'am. No it doesn't. Not if you're properly trained and exercise proper firearms handling.


<Subject edited in response to comments>

[jmra]

Might want to be a little more descriptive in the subject line of your posts.

ETA: thanks, helps in picking which subject matter members are interested in.

[HKMike]

The quote should have read, "I'm a politician, it happens".

[tarkus]

Based on the story, it doesn't sound like an accidental discharge. It sounds like Combs was handling a loaded gun, failed to exercise due care, and negligently discharged the firearm.

I also have to agree with HKMike.

[Charles L. Cotton]

For quite some time now, there have been a growing number of gun owners that take the position that there's no such thing as an "accidental discharge." In their opinion, any unintended discharge of a firearm is a "negligent discharge." I strongly disagree, but that's not the point of my post.

Even though the Texas reasonable person standard for negligence will not hold that every single unintended discharge of a firearm is the result of negligence, Texas law allows anyone to set a higher standard for themselves. If they do so, then they will be held to that standard in a court of law. So remember, anyone who states in a post, in a conversation, or in any other setting, that every unintended discharge of a firearm is the result of negligence, then they will be held to that standard when they experience such a discharge. In short, you are creating a strict liability situation for yourself and you will be held liable for personal injury, death, or property damage. Good luck!

Chas.

[ldj1002]

What's the difference in accidental and negligence? Anyway if there was such a thing as no accidents, there would be no traffic deaths.

[jmra]

I would like to go on record that from this day forward I believe that an unintentional discharge of a firearm is an accidental discharge.

[HerbM]

Practically all "accidental discharges" are ALSO NEGLIGENT.

In the analogy with an automobile accident, you might find yourself in that accident through the negligence of other drivers, vagaries of the road or conditions, mechanical malfunction, and including MISTAKES (but not negligence) in normal operating procedures, or a combination of many such factors.

Of course, and auto accident can be due to your own negligence and frequently will be as well, but it isn't nearly as likely.

Firearms are NOT typically "OPERATED" except under very carefully defined conditions (e.g., at the range, in hunting, or in self-defense), but are merely carried or handled.

Automobiles are almost continuously operated during normal 'use'.

The analogy would be more accurate is we said something like "negligence with a car would almost never happen if we kept it in PARKED with our foot off the gas."

The main category of exceptions are mechanical malfunctions but on a modern firearm this is MOST unlikely, especially if it is kept in good repair.

The rules of firearm safety can be reduced to a VERY SMALL number of critical items that are VERY EASY to learn and follow.

This is not true for even the normal operation of an automobile where conditions of operation complicated almost all use immensely -- driving on a test track or driving "course" offers the nearest likely exceptions to these complications and removes most of the issues with "other people."

"Keep your finger off the darn trigger" until you are ready to destroy a known target will ALMOST cover it for a firearm. (And don't point it at anything you don't want to destroy in case you screw this up but that is not about the discharge itself but rather the EFFECT if it does happen.)

There is no reason to unintentionally discharge a properly functioning firearm. Even if you fall or are startled or otherwise inattentive, even if you fall asleep, the firearm is most unlikely to discharge if your finder is NOT on the darn trigger.

Technically we must also protect the trigger from other foreign objects by using a holster or other means, but MAINLY it is just about KEEPING THAT DARN FINGER OFF THAT DARN TRIGGER.


Everyone SHOULD know the rules and anyone who manages to fire it by 'accident' has almost certainly been negligent of one of those SIMPLE and WELL-KNOWN rules.

[WildBill]

For quite some time now, there have been a growing number of gun owners that take the position that there's no such thing as an "accidental discharge." In their opinion, any unintended discharge of a firearm is a "negligent discharge." I strongly disagree, but that's not the point of my post.

Even though the Texas reasonable person standard for negligence will not hold that every single unintended discharge of a firearm is the result of negligence, Texas law allows anyone to set a higher standard for themselves. If they do so, then they will be held to that standard in a court of law. So remember, anyone who states in a post, in a conversation, or in any other setting, that every unintended discharge of a firearm is the result of negligence, then they will be held to that standard when they experience such a discharge. In short, you are creating a strict liability situation for yourself and you will be held liable for personal injury, death, or property damage. Good luck!

Chas.

I have stated this many times on this forum.

[thatguy]

For quite some time now, there have been a growing number of gun owners that take the position that there's no such thing as an "accidental discharge." In their opinion, any unintended discharge of a firearm is a "negligent discharge." I strongly disagree, but that's not the point of my post.

Even though the Texas reasonable person standard for negligence will not hold that every single unintended discharge of a firearm is the result of negligence, Texas law allows anyone to set a higher standard for themselves. If they do so, then they will be held to that standard in a court of law. So remember, anyone who states in a post, in a conversation, or in any other setting, that every unintended discharge of a firearm is the result of negligence, then they will be held to that standard when they experience such a discharge. In short, you are creating a strict liability situation for yourself and you will be held liable for personal injury, death, or property damage. Good luck!

Chas.

I'd better have a real good attorney then...

I have caused a negligent discharge on two separate occasions, both occurred in my 20's. It's my life's mission not to have another but it CAN happen so I remain vigilant.

I believe we are not saying they can't happen but more they are unacceptable when they do.

[bbobb]

I believe in accidental discharges. If somebody slips and falls, and the gun fires without anybody touching it, I call that an accident. On the other hand, if somebody is careless and presses the trigger without intending to shoot and the gun fires, it is tough for me to sugar coat their carelessness by calling it an accident.

If somebody fires a gun in the air on new years eve and the bullet kills a child, should we call that an accident because they wrren't aiming at the child?

[Abraham]

There are many different kinds of accidental discharges that are not the fault of the gun owner.

To wit: The holster that over time becomes deformed and snags the trigger...and on and on.

[HerbM]

If someone intentially fires the gun into the air then the discharge itself is NOT "accidental."

If it is negligent (not done in a safe manner) then this is an example of a Negligent Discharge that is NOT an Accidental Discharge.

If someone slips and falls and in catching themselves accidentally puts their finger on the trigger (as a result of the fall) then as you say this is likely an example of an Accidental Discharge that is NOT a Negligent Discharge.

When someone puts their finger on the trigger of a loaded firearm (or fails to check that the 'unloaded' firearm is clear) with no intention to fire, and then a discharge results, this is almost certainly a Negligent Discharge.

There COULD be an exception, but they would be few and far between.

Saying, “I’m a gun owner. It happens.” would be tantamount to saying "I own a car; accidents happen." -- Worse actually since as I mentioned earlier, automobiles are subject to far more complex vagaries in normal operation.


--
HerbM

[HKMike]

I'm confident that everyone on this board does their absolute best to ensure an unintended discharge never happens. However, the difference between unintended, accidental, and negligent are degrees of carelessness I suppose. We do our part to ensure that it never happens, but being human does figure into the equation. To say accidents happen does not mean they have to happen. So, we all do what we can to limit the probability of an accident.

[WildBill]

I'm confident that everyone on this board does their absolute best to ensure an unintended discharge never happens. However, the difference between unintended, accidental, and negligent are degrees of carelessness I suppose. We do our part to ensure that it never happens, but being human does figure into the equation. To say accidents happen does not mean they have to happen. So, we all do what we can to limit the probability of an accident.

I don't believe that to be true.