Original FW Gun Show question

[Macappletex]

I went to the original gun show in FW today. This is about the 4th time I've been to this show this past year or so. As I went in the door today, there was a big 30.06 sign as I walked in. No police officers anywhere. In the past I've never seen this posted before! In the past, police officer checks my gun, puts a strap on it, reholster, and enjoy the show. Not today! Did I miss something? Seems like an odd place to have a 30.06 sighn. Just curious.

[Wes]

I have seen it many times before, this time I entered through the back door and there was one there too. There were two cops at that entrance tho.

[Macappletex]

I guess I must have missed it before. LEO didn't say a word last time I was there and put it back in my IWB holster. It was unloaded though. Can I carry concealed even if it is unloaded? What if I have mag in one pocket and gun concealed unloaded and tied? Really confused by this.

[Dirthawking]

The FW shows are always posted (illegally I might add) and they WILL confiscate ammo brought into the show. Seen it every time I have gone.

[olafpfj]

I still don't understand the problem people have with not being allowed to carry a LOADED gun at a gun show. We, as responsible and safe gun owners, jump on any story about someone showing their "unloaded" gun to someone when it just "accidentally" went off. The potential for an accident when there are thousands of firearms being handled by thousands of people in a small confined space is huge!!

The biggest most important rule that was beat into my head when I got my NRA basic pistol cert. was that there is NO LIVE AMMO ANYWHERE IN THE ROOM...PERIOD!!!

We post on this forum all the time advising new owners to make sure you don't have any ammo out when cleaning your firearms. We jump all over videos slamming the hubris of an "only one" doing a demo to some school kids and firing off a round. We decry the idiots who can't help themselves and show off their guns to someone without clearing it resulting in the expected ND. Yet somehow many seem to think that a basic firearm safety point should be suspended at a gun show where the potential for mistakes is extremely high. Just take a look around when you're there and see how many violations of the basic 4 rules you see. Muzzle sweeps, fingers on triggers, assuming the guns are unloaded without checking but it's just fine to introduce a loaded gun somewhere in the mix? Having the attitude of "Oh sure I wouldn't ever pull mine out of the holster because I'm not that dumb", is just asking for trouble. Can you really say you've never drawn your loaded carry gun to look at it and you'll remember every single time over the course of your life not to do it at a gun show when shopping and handling guns? Do you trust others to be as awesome at not doing dumb things as yourself?

The 30.06 signs (leave the city owned building aspect out of it) force people to toe the line on a basic fundamental safety standard. When handling or displaying firearms anywhere other than a range, they should be unloaded and all ammo locked up. Why many don't think this should apply to a gun show is beyond me. It seems so obvious to me, that is the one place where that safety standard should be rigidly enforced!!! I know many CHL instructors have a don't ask don't tell policy regarding concealed carry in their classes (obviously I'm talking about renewals) but it's pretty easy to spot an infraction in a small class setting. How on earth could you possibly spot someone being dumb at a gun show?!!!

Don't be hypocritical and declare yourself an "only one" safe and responsible enough to carry a loaded gun into a gun show.

If you're super paranoid about being robbed between the hall and your car ask yourself how many parking lot robberies have occurred at gun shows...anyone, anyone....Bueller

<end rant>

Sorry if I've offended anyone it's just a real pet peeve of mine...

[Wes]

Yes, because they don't sell ammo at the gun show.

[jmra]

Yes, because they don't sell ammo at the gun show.

[olafpfj]

Yes, because they don't sell ammo at the gun show.

You forgot to add this to your comment...

Of course they sell ammo at the gun shows and this technically violates the "no ammo" rule. It is a far cry from having ammo available that you would have to overtly and intentionally load into a firearm and having an already loaded firearm in a holster that you might try to test fit into a new holster you like or compare size to another pistol.

And....that's why they zip tie all the actions...

Of course you could cut the zip tie and load a firearm but that would be willful negligence and not an accident now wouldn't it...

[jmra]

I still don't understand the problem people have with not being allowed to carry a LOADED gun at a gun show. We, as responsible and safe gun owners, jump on any story about someone showing their "unloaded" gun to someone when it just "accidentally" went off. The potential for an accident when there are thousands of firearms being handled by thousands of people in a small confined space is huge!!

The biggest most important rule that was beat into my head when I got my NRA basic pistol cert. was that there is NO LIVE AMMO ANYWHERE IN THE ROOM...PERIOD!!!

We post on this forum all the time advising new owners to make sure you don't have any ammo out when cleaning your firearms. We jump all over videos slamming the hubris of an "only one" doing a demo to some school kids and firing off a round. We decry the idiots who can't help themselves and show off their guns to someone without clearing it resulting in the expected ND. Yet somehow many seem to think that a basic firearm safety point should be suspended at a gun show where the potential for mistakes is extremely high. Just take a look around when you're there and see how many violations of the basic 4 rules you see. Muzzle sweeps, fingers on triggers, assuming the guns are unloaded without checking but it's just fine to introduce a loaded gun somewhere in the mix? Having the attitude of "Oh sure I wouldn't ever pull mine out of the holster because I'm not that dumb", is just asking for trouble. Can you really say you've never drawn your loaded carry gun to look at it and you'll remember every single time over the course of your life not to do it at a gun show when shopping and handling guns? Do you trust others to be as awesome at not doing dumb things as yourself?

The 30.06 signs (leave the city owned building aspect out of it) force people to toe the line on a basic fundamental safety standard. When handling or displaying firearms anywhere other than a range, they should be unloaded and all ammo locked up. Why many don't think this should apply to a gun show is beyond me. It seems so obvious to me, that is the one place where that safety standard should be rigidly enforced!!! I know many CHL instructors have a don't ask don't tell policy regarding concealed carry in their classes (obviously I'm talking about renewals) but it's pretty easy to spot an infraction in a small class setting. How on earth could you possibly spot someone being dumb at a gun show?!!!

Don't be hypocritical and declare yourself an "only one" safe and responsible enough to carry a loaded gun into a gun show.

If you're super paranoid about being robbed between the hall and your car ask yourself how many parking lot robberies have occurred at gun shows...anyone, anyone....Bueller

<end rant>

Sorry if I've offended anyone it's just a real pet peeve of mine...

Please tell me what this has to do with concealed carry? If you can't be trusted to obey concealed carry laws at a gun show, you can't be trusted to follow them anywhere else.

[olafpfj]

Please tell me what this has to do with concealed carry? If you can't be trusted to obey concealed carry laws at a gun show, you can't be trusted to follow them anywhere else.

This has to do with the specific nature of the activities at a gun show. While I certainly trust people to obey concealed carry laws, the potential for someone to easily forget at a gun show is high. Why? Because there are firearms on display and being handled all over the place. It creates an illusion of open carry where the display and handling of firearms is so normalized in that specific environment that someone might forget. It's pretty easy to remember to obey the CHL laws in the general public when there aren't 1000's of people handling 1000's of guns right in front of you.

My rant isn't about whether I trust anyone with a CHL to know and obey the laws in general it's about the potential to get lulled into dropping your vigilance due to the nature of a gun shows specific environment. I carry when I shop. I carry when I shop for new guns and ammo but it is far easier to stay vigilant at Academy, Bass Pro, Cabela's, LGS, etc. when the crowds are far less and at most there might be a few dozen people looking at guns under glass and maybe one or two handling them with a clerk right there watching them. We have all read posts here about encountering someone at a gun retailer drawing their carry piece to compare size or whatever and it being super easy to spot and police. The clerks jump down their throat (hopefully politely) and corrects their error. You would need a vegas style casino camera system to try and spot and correct every infraction at a gun show.

Think of it like all the no smoking signs around gas stations, fuel depots, tanker trucks and the like. Yes, we all know the dangers of smoking around flammable materials but inevitably some 20 year veteran of the industry will forget or willfully ignore the danger and do it. The disaster may not happen the first time or the 100th but that doesn't mean it isn't dangerous and ill advised.

It's the same reason that unless you're on the line in an IDPA event or something similar, your firearms are to be unloaded. There are so many guns around being handled at these events that the potential for a mistake is extremely high. You mean I'm saying that the organizers of these events don't trust people to be safe all on their lonesome and remember not to unholster their loaded guns except during the course of fire?!! That's exactly what I'm saying and no one has a problem with it or fails to grasp why that safety rule is in place. Save for the live fire going on how is a gun show any different?

So no...I don't trust people not to unholster their loaded carry guns at a gun show and neither should anyone else. It's too easy to get complacent and forgetful when you're surrounded by "unloaded" guns but you have to remember that yours isn't.

Don't let 2nd amendment rights fervor cloud you from seeing a clear safety issue at a gun show.

[jmra]

Like I said, if you can't be trusted to conceal carry at a gun show then you can't be trusted to conceal carry anywhere. Your argument simply doesn't hold water. A CHL holder is going to follow the law or he isn't. Where he happens to be at a given time has nothing to do with his character.
If you feel so strongly about this "safety" issue, you might just want to avoid gun shows altogether. Thankfully our laws and rights are not based on your "trust" or lack thereof.

[WildBill]

Don't let 2nd amendment rights fervor cloud you from seeing a clear safety issue at a gun show.

I don't.

[olafpfj]

Like I said, if you can't be trusted to conceal carry at a gun show then you can't be trusted to conceal carry anywhere. Your argument simply doesn't hold water. A CHL holder is going to follow the law or he isn't. Where he happens to be at a given time has nothing to do with his character.

I completely see your point philosophically I just can't ignore the practical reality that people make mistakes and neither can shooting events, gun ranges or gun shows. Those places and activities, due to their nature, increase the chances of someone making a mistake. They have policies to mitigate this and I agree with them.

If you feel so strongly about this "safety" issue, you might just want to avoid gun shows altogether. Thankfully our laws and rights are not based on your "trust" or lack thereof.

I do but only because I rarely find what I'm looking for and the prices are too high. I don't really worry about a ND at a gunshow or anywhere else any more than I worry about my carry piece magically going off in its holster. I can be a bit of a rule stickler and risk management advocate but I think that comes from my career where mitigating unnecessary risk keeps people alive. It doesn't mean I a nervous nellie though...

I think I will stop beating the dead horse and thank you for being civil in your disagreement...

[Wes]

Punishing the majority of people because a few can't follow the law sounds very similar to some other common sense suggestions as of late. You can say it's not a second amendment issue but telling us we are not smart enough to carry properly and the government needs to tell me how is absolutely the problem.

Someone looking to take advantage of another knows no bounds, they are everywhere, and just because I can not point you to an article of it happening does not mean it hasn't or won't. I carry everywhere I am legally allowed, you never know when you will need it.

I can understand how you would want to be cautious of places like this though, there are a lot of people and guns in one place which can obviously increase the chance of an accident. That can be said for any place where a bunch of people gather tho, and that is simple because there are more people, period. Football game, the fair, gun range, you name it.

Let me look out for myself, I don't need someone else to do it.

[jmra]

Let me look out for myself, I don't need someone else to do it.

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