Being stopped by LEO

[mojo84]

There are officers on this forum that say they "do not" have that information. I also don't know how the officer can know if the person the vehicle is registered to is the one driving.

They do not have to specifically ask for the chl license. They just need to ask for identification. You are supposed to give it if you are carrying a gun at the time or have one within reach while in your vehicle.

[WildBill]

Can you cite the source that says the officer already knows, one doesn't have to show chl and that he must ask for is specifically. In other words, pretty much all of it except the part regarding it being legal to carry in car concealed.

Source was a DPS officer instructor during CHL instructor training. Told us that LEOs already have that information when they pull you over and run a check prior to approaching your vehicle. Since then, I was told only DPS has this information but I have aslo heard other LEO agencies that have the information on the check. I was stopped by DPS and he asked me for my TDL, insurance, and CHL when he walked up to my window. I always assume an LEO already knows I have a CHL.

Regarding to show or not to show CHL on a stop. Legally speaking, according to Texas Government Code 411.205, you don't have to show your CHL ID until the LEO "demands" that you show it.....and only when you are carrying.

GC §411.205. REQUIREMENT TO DISPLAY LICENSE. (a) If a license holder is carrying a handgun on or about the license holder's person when a magistrate or a peace officer demands that the license holder display identification, the license holder shall display both the license holder's driver's license or identification certificate issued by the department and the license holder's handgun license.

IMO, when the LEO "asks" for your DL or ID, he is "demanding" that you show your DL and CHL [if carrying].

[captainkbt]

We have to show it when the peace officer demands identification, such as a drivers license. He doesn't need to specifically ask for the CHL.

Not necessarily.....

[sunny beach]

We have to show it when the peace officer demands identification, such as a drivers license. He doesn't need to specifically ask for the CHL.

Not necessarily.....

How about we cite verifiable sources for our opinions?

I'll go first. Texas Government Code 411.205.

[mojo84]

We have to show it when the peace officer demands identification, such as a drivers license. He doesn't need to specifically ask for the CHL.

Not necessarily.....

How about we cite verifiable sources for our opinions?

I'll go first. Texas Government Code 411.205.

Interestingly, he cited the same code. He just has a different interpretation. One that I think just may cause him some headache should the right occasion arise.

[captainkbt]

Can you cite the source that says the officer already knows, one doesn't have to show chl and that he must ask for is specifically. In other words, pretty much all of it except the part regarding it being legal to carry in car concealed.

Source was a DPS officer instructor during CHL instructor training. Told us that LEOs already have that information when they pull you over and run a check prior to approaching your vehicle. Since then, I was told only DPS has this information but I have aslo heard other LEO agencies that have the information on the check. I was stopped by DPS and he asked me for my TDL, insurance, and CHL when he walked up to my window. I always assume an LEO already knows I have a CHL.

Regarding to show or not to show CHL on a stop. Legally speaking, according to Texas Government Code 411.205, you don't have to show your CHL ID until the LEO "demands" that you show it.....and only when you are carrying.

GC §411.205. REQUIREMENT TO DISPLAY LICENSE. (a) If a license holder is carrying a handgun on or about the license holder's person when a magistrate or a peace officer demands that the license holder display identification, the license holder shall display both the license holder's driver's license or identification certificate issued by the department and the license holder's handgun license.

IMO, when the LEO "asks" for your DL or ID, he is "demanding" that you show your DL and CHL [if carrying].

It can be construed that way....and Im sure that the statute was not changed after the new vehicle carry statute was changed in 2007. We got into a big debate on this issue amongst the students and DPS in Georgetown during instructor training over which "identification" the legislation was speaking to. Our DPS instructor even sided with some of the students that, again....legally speaking, a CHL doesn't have to be produced until the LEO specifically "demands" it when carrying. Why? Because in 2007 the state began allowing carrying in vehicles WITHOUT a CHL. So the reasoning is..... why would a civilian who does not have a CHL be allowed to carry in his vehicle and so would not be required to produce any CHL license but a CHL holder still would be? In other words, if you meet the standards, a CHL holder is carrying legally in his vehicle regardless if he/she holds a CHL license or not. So there is no punishable requirement to fail to do so. Make sense?

[sunny beach]

It makes sense logically but that's very different than making sense legally.

[mojo84]

captain, I suggest you do a search on the forum and or contact Charles Cotton or Keith B regarding this. They are highly informed on this and many other related subjects. I especially encourage you to do it if you are or plan to be an instructor.

[captainkbt]

We have to show it when the peace officer demands identification, such as a drivers license. He doesn't need to specifically ask for the CHL.

Not necessarily.....

How about we cite verifiable sources for our opinions?

I'll go first. Texas Government Code 411.205.

Interestingly, he cited the same code. He just has a different interpretation. One that I think just may cause him some headache should the right occasion arise.

No....no headaches. If I am carrying and I get stopped, I ask the LEO if he would like to see my CHL. If I am not carrying, then it is irrelevant.

[Keith B]

Legally, the law states that you MUST present the LEO with your CHL if you are carrying. That is the law. However, if you do not do it there is no penalty any longer.

Now, there is a gray area with the fact that a non-licensed person may carry in their vehicle and is not required to inform if armed. There are differences in opinion on which law trumps which. Some say CHL trumps MPA and you have to present your license. Others stay MPA trumps CHL and you don't.

Personally, because most officers believe you should inform them, because I have a CHL I will present my license, even if not armed, because the officer will find out I have one when they run my DL and probably ask me about it it I don't show it when stopped. I personally advise any CHL, carrying or not, to present the license. That keeps you 100% in line, no matter which way is legally right, and prevents a possible confrontation with the officer as to if you have to present or not.

[mojo84]

Keith, Do they have to ask specifically for the CHL?

[captainkbt]

captain, I suggest you do a search on the forum and or contact Charles Cotton or Keith B regarding this. They are highly informed on this and many other related subjects. I especially encourage you to do it if you are or plan to be an instructor.

I am an instructor, and Im just telling you about what was discussed in Georgetown TX during instructor training. The student instructors came out with the understanding that, strictly legally speaking, it wasn't necessary to show CHL credentials unless specifically asked. Can you show me a penalty for failing to show CHL license IF the LEO doesn't ask for it and you are carrying? There is none that I am aware of. Why would the state penalize/punish a CHL holder for not automatically showing their CHL license when carrying in their vehicle when a non-CHL holder can carry legally in a vehicle without credentials? That's the only point Im making......not telling anyone what to do. I highly recommend to anyone who is carrying in their vehicle to either show their credentials or state that they are a CHL holder.

[mojo84]

Just because there isn't a penalty doesn't mean the law doesn't require it.

[WildBill]

captain, I suggest you do a search on the forum and or contact Charles Cotton or Keith B regarding this. They are highly informed on this and many other related subjects. I especially encourage you to do it if you are or plan to be an instructor.

I am an instructor, and Im just telling you about what was discussed in Georgetown TX during instructor training. The student instructors came out with the understanding that, strictly legally speaking, it wasn't necessary to show CHL credentials unless specifically asked. Can you show me a penalty for failing to show CHL license IF the LEO doesn't ask for it and you are carrying? There is none that I am aware of. Why would the state penalize/punish a CHL holder for not automatically showing their CHL license when carrying in their vehicle when a non-CHL holder can carry legally in a vehicle without credentials? That's the only point Im making......not telling anyone what to do. I highly recommend to anyone who is carrying in their vehicle to either show their credentials or state that they are a CHL holder.

There is no penalty for not showing your CHL. That is what mojo84 stated. Even though it may not be a legal requirement, I also recommend showing CHL credentials when asked for DL or ID by a LEO.

[captainkbt]

Now, there is a gray area with the fact that a non-licensed person may carry in their vehicle and is not required to inform if armed. There are differences in opinion on which law trumps which. Some say CHL trumps MPA and you have to present your license. Others stay MPA trumps CHL and you don't.

That is what I am speaking about. And I feel that because I am speaking about that, some in here are automatically ASSUMING that I am recommending not showing your credentials unless asked. I AM NOT DOING THAT. Please read my comments carefully. I teach all my students to advise the LEO that you are a CHL holder when you are carrying.