Shooting on the Move

[jmra]

This video captures my incompetence during multiple attempts to shoot on the move. I would greatly appreciate any suggestions as to how I could improve. Keep in mind that I'm an age 72 fat guy so what may be easy for you youngsters is not so for me.

A little late I know, but I would ask what you hope to achieve by shooting on the move? In what scenario do you think you would employ this tactic?

Almost any close range scenario where the BG is armed and I don't have cover or need to move away from my family so they won't become a target. If you remain motionless as in shooting at a paper target on a square range you are likely to get shot and unlike a LEO, I don't wear a protective vest. It is not smart to stand still and trade shots with a BG, you need to get off the X to gain a tactical advantage or to get behind cover. Actual close range gun fights are not like TV where GG and BG stand still and trade shots and the BG drops after the first hit. Do a search for Gabe Suarez or shooting on the move and you will find plenty on the subject.

I understand the point that I believe redhat is making. At that distance and assuming the BG has a gun your chances of survival would be much greater complying with the BGs demands. I come to this conclusion by looking at several things:
1. He has the drop on you. By the time you draw and start to move the BG can get off several rounds. Unless there is a distraction that buys you enough time, the odds are greatly against you. Add this exercise to your training. Buy two air soft guns that match your EDC. Holster one in a concealed carry configuration and give the other to someone that will replace your paper target. Now run the drill 10 times and see how many times you "die".
2. Look at the statistics of armed robberies. Now look at the percentage of those armed robberies that end in the victim being shot. Now compare that percentage to your survival rate in the air soft drill above. I believe you will find your success rate much lower.

I'm not saying that a person shouldn't defend themselves. I am saying that you have to pick your battles very carefully. Unless you see a very good window of opportunity or you are convinced that the BG is intent on more than your wallet, statistics would dictate cooperation.

I would also suggest at that distance a knife might be a better self defense weapon than a firearm. It is often easier to draw and it's use allows you to move into the BG while using leverage to redirect his weapon.

[MoJo]

This video captures my incompetence during multiple attempts to shoot on the move. I would greatly appreciate any suggestions as to how I could improve. Keep in mind that I'm an age 72 fat guy so what may be easy for you youngsters is not so for me.

A little late I know, but I would ask what you hope to achieve by shooting on the move? In what scenario do you think you would employ this tactic?

Almost any close range scenario where the BG is armed and I don't have cover or need to move away from my family so they won't become a target. If you remain motionless as in shooting at a paper target on a square range you are likely to get shot and unlike a LEO, I don't wear a protective vest. It is not smart to stand still and trade shots with a BG, you need to get off the X to gain a tactical advantage or to get behind cover. Actual close range gun fights are not like TV where GG and BG stand still and trade shots and the BG drops after the first hit. Do a search for Gabe Suarez or shooting on the move and you will find plenty on the subject.

I understand the point that I believe redhat is making. At that distance and assuming the BG has a gun your chances of survival would be much greater complying with the BGs demands. I come to this conclusion by looking at several things:
1. He has the drop on you. By the time you draw and start to move the BG can get off several rounds. Unless there is a distraction that buys you enough time, the odds are greatly against you. Add this exercise to your training. Buy two air soft guns that match your EDC. Holster one in a concealed carry configuration and give the other to someone that will replace your paper target. Now run the drill 10 times and see how many times you "die".

Lately, complying with the BG's demands gets people shot. Fake compliance along with a distraction will buy yourself some time.


2. Look at the statistics of armed robberies. Now look at the percentage of those armed robberies that end in the victim being shot. Now compare that percentage to your survival rate in the air soft drill above. I believe you will find your success rate much lower.

Anything you can do to make it harder for the BG to shoot you is a good thing. We are all responsible for our on protection. Moving and shooting is just one of the many techniques that are taught.

I'm not saying that a person shouldn't defend themselves. I am saying that you have to pick your battles very carefully. Unless you see a very good window of opportunity or you are convinced that the BG is intent on more than your wallet, statistics would dictate cooperation.

I would also suggest at that distance a knife might be a better self defense weapon than a firearm. It is often easier to draw and it's use allows you to move into the BG while using leverage to redirect his weapon.

You must have missed shoot first's age he said he was 72 years old I'm 67 and have a laundry list of ailments that make a knife fight a total loosing proposition. The most people over 60 are in no shape to go to the ground with a 20 something.

[MoJo]

PM sent

[jmra]

This video captures my incompetence during multiple attempts to shoot on the move. I would greatly appreciate any suggestions as to how I could improve. Keep in mind that I'm an age 72 fat guy so what may be easy for you youngsters is not so for me.

A little late I know, but I would ask what you hope to achieve by shooting on the move? In what scenario do you think you would employ this tactic?

Almost any close range scenario where the BG is armed and I don't have cover or need to move away from my family so they won't become a target. If you remain motionless as in shooting at a paper target on a square range you are likely to get shot and unlike a LEO, I don't wear a protective vest. It is not smart to stand still and trade shots with a BG, you need to get off the X to gain a tactical advantage or to get behind cover. Actual close range gun fights are not like TV where GG and BG stand still and trade shots and the BG drops after the first hit. Do a search for Gabe Suarez or shooting on the move and you will find plenty on the subject.

I understand the point that I believe redhat is making. At that distance and assuming the BG has a gun your chances of survival would be much greater complying with the BGs demands. I come to this conclusion by looking at several things:
1. He has the drop on you. By the time you draw and start to move the BG can get off several rounds. Unless there is a distraction that buys you enough time, the odds are greatly against you. Add this exercise to your training. Buy two air soft guns that match your EDC. Holster one in a concealed carry configuration and give the other to someone that will replace your paper target. Now run the drill 10 times and see how many times you "die".

Lately, complying with the BG's demands gets people shot. Fake compliance along with a distraction will buy yourself some time.


2. Look at the statistics of armed robberies. Now look at the percentage of those armed robberies that end in the victim being shot. Now compare that percentage to your survival rate in the air soft drill above. I believe you will find your success rate much lower.

Anything you can do to make it harder for the BG to shoot you is a good thing. We are all responsible for our on protection. Moving and shooting is just one of the many techniques that are taught.

I'm not saying that a person shouldn't defend themselves. I am saying that you have to pick your battles very carefully. Unless you see a very good window of opportunity or you are convinced that the BG is intent on more than your wallet, statistics would dictate cooperation.

I would also suggest at that distance a knife might be a better self defense weapon than a firearm. It is often easier to draw and it's use allows you to move into the BG while using leverage to redirect his weapon.

You must have missed shoot first's age he said he was 72 years old I'm 67 and have a laundry list of ailments that make a knife fight a total loosing proposition. The most people over 60 are in no shape to go to the ground with a 20 something.

In that case I would strongly advise cooperation with the drill being practiced an absolutely last resort. It's is all about percentages, and I would not bet the farm on that drill being anywhere near successful. I would definitely look at other options.
I would like to see statistics supporting the statement that "lately complying with the BG's demands gets people shot". That sounds more like an emotional response than a factual one.

[Shoot_First]

This video captures my incompetence during multiple attempts to shoot on the move. I would greatly appreciate any suggestions as to how I could improve. Keep in mind that I'm an age 72 fat guy so what may be easy for you youngsters is not so for me.

A little late I know, but I would ask what you hope to achieve by shooting on the move? In what scenario do you think you would employ this tactic?

Almost any close range scenario where the BG is armed and I don't have cover or need to move away from my family so they won't become a target. If you remain motionless as in shooting at a paper target on a square range you are likely to get shot and unlike a LEO, I don't wear a protective vest. It is not smart to stand still and trade shots with a BG, you need to get off the X to gain a tactical advantage or to get behind cover. Actual close range gun fights are not like TV where GG and BG stand still and trade shots and the BG drops after the first hit. Do a search for Gabe Suarez or shooting on the move and you will find plenty on the subject.

I understand the point that I believe redhat is making. At that distance and assuming the BG has a gun your chances of survival would be much greater complying with the BGs demands. I come to this conclusion by looking at several things:
1. He has the drop on you. By the time you draw and start to move the BG can get off several rounds. Unless there is a distraction that buys you enough time, the odds are greatly against you. Add this exercise to your training. Buy two air soft guns that match your EDC. Holster one in a concealed carry configuration and give the other to someone that will replace your paper target. Now run the drill 10 times and see how many times you "die".

Lately, complying with the BG's demands gets people shot. Fake compliance along with a distraction will buy yourself some time.


2. Look at the statistics of armed robberies. Now look at the percentage of those armed robberies that end in the victim being shot. Now compare that percentage to your survival rate in the air soft drill above. I believe you will find your success rate much lower.

Anything you can do to make it harder for the BG to shoot you is a good thing. We are all responsible for our on protection. Moving and shooting is just one of the many techniques that are taught.

I'm not saying that a person shouldn't defend themselves. I am saying that you have to pick your battles very carefully. Unless you see a very good window of opportunity or you are convinced that the BG is intent on more than your wallet, statistics would dictate cooperation.

I would also suggest at that distance a knife might be a better self defense weapon than a firearm. It is often easier to draw and it's use allows you to move into the BG while using leverage to redirect his weapon.

You must have missed shoot first's age he said he was 72 years old I'm 67 and have a laundry list of ailments that make a knife fight a total loosing proposition. The most people over 60 are in no shape to go to the ground with a 20 something.

Mojo
The old saying to never draw on a drawn gun is still generally true, but I would never say never. I also do not believe in fighting "fair" like we were taught as kids. If I can get an advantage by throwing dirt, salt, pepper, coffee, water, or whatever in your face I will. If it is robbery, do not expect me to hand you my wallet and keys... I hope you bend down to pick them up.

The reality is that most of use that have a CHL will never have to use our firearm other than at the range and I hope in my case that holds true, Having said that, I still carry.

I guess I may have missed the point of Redhat's question. If it is as you say, then your comments are spot on.

[Redhat]

Hi all,

It appears there are some assumptions about the nature of my question. I have nothing against shooting and movement. I was asking for clarification from the OP on what he hopes to accomplish. At the basic level I have to be honest about my ability. Can I shoot and move fast and accurately enough for it to be beneficial? I know that when I shoot on the move, I will have to slow down in order to achieve acceptable accuracy on target. By slowing down, I also make myself an easier target. Would I be better off moving rapidly (exploding) off the "X" and then engaging? Would I be better off moving rapidly to cover then engaging? The main point I'm trying to make is "shooting on the move" takes a lot of practice to be able to do at "combat speed" and even then, executing it on a nice flat obstruction free surface is a far cry from the real world where there are pot holes, curbs, rocks and heck my own two feet to trip over, especially when moving to the rear blind.

Regarding the OPs video and some comments on how close he was to the target, I would add that practicing a skill is just that, it doesn't mean he would employ it in the exact same set up in a defensive situation it's simply learning to shoot on the move.

I'm not judging anyone, just trying to present some food for thought.

[Shoot_First]

Hi all,

It appears there are some assumptions about the nature of my question. I have nothing against shooting and movement. I was asking for clarification from the OP on what he hopes to accomplish. At the basic level I have to be honest about my ability. Can I shoot and move fast and accurately enough for it to be beneficial? I know that when I shoot on the move, I will have to slow down in order to achieve acceptable accuracy on target. By slowing down, I also make myself an easier target. Would I be better off moving rapidly (exploding) off the "X" and then engaging? Would I be better off moving rapidly to cover then engaging? The main point I'm trying to make is "shooting on the move" takes a lot of practice to be able to do at "combat speed" and even then, executing it on a nice flat obstruction free surface is a far cry from the real world where there are pot holes, curbs, rocks and heck my own two feet to trip over, especially when moving to the rear blind.

Regarding the OPs video and some comments on how close he was to the target, I would add that practicing a skill is just that, it doesn't mean he would employ it in the exact same set up in a defensive situation it's simply learning to shoot on the move.

I'm not judging anyone, just trying to present some food for thought.

Hey Redhat,
Did I answer your question? If not let me know and I will try to provide a better answer. If I were a novice, I would practice the basics. I have only recently started to add shooting on the move to my skill set and I'm lousy at it and that is why I posted. Got some good advice which I will put into my weekly practice routine. Shoot on the move is not a tactic I would use in all scenarios, just another tool in the kit bag.

[Redhat]

Hey Redhat,
Did I answer your question? If not let me know and I will try to provide a better answer. If I were a novice, I would practice the basics. I have only recently started to add shooting on the move to my skill set and I'm lousy at it and that is why I posted. Got some good advice which I will put into my weekly practice routine. Shoot on the move is not a tactic I would use in all scenarios, just another tool in the kit bag.

I would say most people I have seen SOTM never really reach a level where it would be beneficial, in other words they never get past the "crawl" stage. I ask myself how much backing away in a straight line affects the bad guys ability to aim and hit me? IMO, I'm not convinced it makes me a harder target since I am not covering much distance. Then again, he does have to worry about the rounds coming towards him.