Doctors asking if you own a gun

[Oldgringo]

Today was semi-annual Dr. day in Tyler:

We saw a Dermatologist who couldn't wait to tell us about his new CHL and handguns, an Oriental Opthomologist who couldn't care less about guns and my Orthopedic surgeon who asked about our summer in Montana and said my knee was doing fine.

None of these medical facilities were 30.06 posted; however, it appeared, in passing from the highway, that there was a big new sign in the Jacksonville Goodwill store window.

as a side note http://www.answers.com/topic/oriental Now if you ask an Asian they don't seem to care.

Code: Select all

n.
often Oriental Often Offensive. An Asian.

orientally o'ri·en'tal·ly adv.
 
USAGE NOTE   Asian is now strongly preferred in place of Oriental for persons native to Asia or descended from an Asian people. The usual objection to Oriental-meaning "eastern"-is that it identifies Asian countries and peoples in terms of their location relative to Europe. However, this objection is not generally made of other Eurocentric terms such as Near and Middle Eastern. The real problem with Oriental is more likely its connotations stemming from an earlier era when Europeans viewed the regions east of the Mediterranean as exotic lands full of romance and intrigue, the home of despotic empires and inscrutable customs. At the least these associations can give Oriental a dated feel, and as a noun in contemporary contexts (as in the first Oriental to be elected from the district) it is now widely taken to be offensive. However, Oriental should not be thought of as an ethnic slur to be avoided in all situations. As with Asiatic, its use other than as an ethnonym, in phrases such as Oriental cuisine or Oriental medicine, is not usually considered objectionable.
Read more: http://www.answers.com/topic/oriental#ixzz2hqM1IjYt

Thank you, suthdj 'ol buddy.

Mea culpa, mea maxima culpa. Please bear with me, I'm a kinda' old honky who is tryin' to come up to speed with today's version of "Political Correctness".

[tommyg]

I like to ask people ??? and wait a few days and ask the same person the same ??? and see
if I get the same answer. This aggravates some people, some people think I don't listen
or can't remember but it is worth it to me. The results are surprising Big brother is
the same way . They want to acquire info and confirm it. This same technique is often
used by LEO to see if a suspect is lying. All I can say is don't trust your doctor and
be careful what you say.

[EEllis]

The first thing that caught my attention was the words "Lawfully" and the second item was why the Second Amendment reference in the "health care bill" at all? We all know how the Federal Government feels about the 2nd Amendment. Can they ask about "unlawfully" owned firearms or query to see if unlawful?

My first guess would be that some paranoid, and I'm not saying it isn't deserved, republican got the Dems to throw that bit in just to make sure they don't use it to backdoor a database. Second would be that it was put in by Dems so someone couldn't use the possibility of a backdoor database as a reason to be against the bill.

[Dave2]

Please bear with me, I'm a kinda' old honky who is tryin' to come up to speed with today's version of "Political Correctness".

Yeah, I can't even keep up with my own generation's slang, much less all the words today's whippersnappers are misusing.

[suthdj]

Today was semi-annual Dr. day in Tyler:

We saw a Dermatologist who couldn't wait to tell us about his new CHL and handguns, an Oriental Opthomologist who couldn't care less about guns and my Orthopedic surgeon who asked about our summer in Montana and said my knee was doing fine.

None of these medical facilities were 30.06 posted; however, it appeared, in passing from the highway, that there was a big new sign in the Jacksonville Goodwill store window.

as a side note http://www.answers.com/topic/oriental Now if you ask an Asian they don't seem to care.

Code: Select all

n.
often Oriental Often Offensive. An Asian.

orientally o'ri·en'tal·ly adv.
 
USAGE NOTE   Asian is now strongly preferred in place of Oriental for persons native to Asia or descended from an Asian people. The usual objection to Oriental-meaning "eastern"-is that it identifies Asian countries and peoples in terms of their location relative to Europe. However, this objection is not generally made of other Eurocentric terms such as Near and Middle Eastern. The real problem with Oriental is more likely its connotations stemming from an earlier era when Europeans viewed the regions east of the Mediterranean as exotic lands full of romance and intrigue, the home of despotic empires and inscrutable customs. At the least these associations can give Oriental a dated feel, and as a noun in contemporary contexts (as in the first Oriental to be elected from the district) it is now widely taken to be offensive. However, Oriental should not be thought of as an ethnic slur to be avoided in all situations. As with Asiatic, its use other than as an ethnonym, in phrases such as Oriental cuisine or Oriental medicine, is not usually considered objectionable.
Read more: http://www.answers.com/topic/oriental#ixzz2hqM1IjYt

Thank you, suthdj 'ol buddy.

Mea culpa, mea maxima culpa. Please bear with me, I'm a kinda' old honky who is tryin' to come up to speed with today's version of "Political Correctness".

np here I got nailed on it a few years back an looked it up. my wife is Chinese and I asked her about it she had no idea what I meant so I think it is only with english speaking American/asians. I was told rugs are Oriental  people are not. I also got called on refering to blacks as colored back when I went in the Army(Long time ago). The response was "Do Iook purple, We black, we know it"

But to keep this on topic I have been to many different Dr's private and V.A. and have never been asked about owning a gun not even my kids Dr, if I ever am asked the answer is simple "No" anything different and it is an obivious "Yes" for them.

[RoyGBiv]

I posted this in a similar thread last year...

Doc: Mr. Biv, the Obamacare law says I have to ask you about guns in the house, but since this is Texas, I assume you have guns in the house, so, if you don't, let me know and I can write you a prescription.

Me: Do you think my prescription plan would cover that?

Doc: Not sure, but we can try.

(True story)

[sailor2000]

My wife and I own a Home Health Agency. We have no requirement that our staff ask patients about weapons. There is a standard set of data we are required to collect and send to Medicare on every patient. That data set does not include any weapons questions.

That said, my wife, when she was still actually making home visits herself has been threatened with a butcher knife by a woman who had dementia. There was a case not too long ago of a Home Health Nurse going into a patients home in Houston and the patient fatally shooting her. Nurses and other staff have been shot, stabbed and otherwise assaulted by patients or patients family members. Many patients or their family members have psychiatric problems, diminished mental function, may be having medication interactions that affect their judgment, be severely depressed or have other issues that make them potentially dangerous. We coach our staff to be aware of their situation in the patient's home and to report any potential hazards up the management chain so appropriate actions can be taken.

We are working on addressing the issue of guns and aging in an upcoming program on The Senior Answer Radio Program, a program dedicated to serving the senior community and their caregivers. We are in discussion with the Houston Police Department Mental Health Division and others about participating in that program topic and hope to get it to air in the next 4 to 6 weeks. It is a tough issue but it is just a fact that there are people who have had health challenges that make it unsafe for them to have access to weapons. Sometimes it really is appropriate for medical personnel to ask about weapons accessibility. It isn't a conspiracy, it is about safety.

[K.Mooneyham]

At my last annual medical exam while in the USAF, I was asked on a questionnaire if I owned firearms. It had only YES or NO boxes. I didn't check either one of them, and said so to the young sergeant at the desk. She ended up going and getting a doctor, who asked me about it. I stated that I didn't see how it was relevant and asked why they needed to know. He pointed out the questions about depression, thoughts of self-harm, etc. I said I had already answered NO to those, so again, what was the relevance, sir. He ended up writing "declined to answer" below the question, and signing beside it. Done deal. I think they were a bit irritated about it, but I didn't have any problems after that.

[Abraham]

sailor2000,

Do you also ask if they have large, sharp kitchen knives, hammers, axes, screwdrivers, etc.?

Color me skeptical regarding the need to know about firearms...

[RoyGBiv]

Sometimes

Agreed. But the law doesn't say "sometimes".

[talltex]

There was a case not too long ago of a Home Health Nurse going into a patients home in Houston and the patient fatally shooting her. Nurses and other staff have been shot, stabbed and otherwise assaulted by patients or patients family members. We coach our staff to be aware of their situation in the patient's home and to report any potential hazards up the management chain so appropriate actions can be taken.

It is a tough issue but it is just a fact that there are people who have had health challenges that make it unsafe for them to have access to weapons. Sometimes it really is appropriate for medical personnel to ask about weapons accessibility. It isn't a conspiracy, it is about safety.

I understand what you're saying, and your concerns, but that's just another slippery slope situation. I'd like to see the hard numbers for actual shootings/stabbings/physical assaults versus the millions of home health care visits each day, before I concluded that it was an issue that needs to be addressed beyond what your company is ALREADY doing. You have taken what seems to me a good "common sense" approach..BE AWARE. Beyond that, I'd have to see a conclusive need for anything further...otherwise it can turn into the same rationale that proposes to disarm all gun owners because of the actions of a few. Who is going to make that decision, and on what criteria? It can't simply be something like anyone over a certain age, or anyone receiving home health care, must not have access to guns/knives/bats, etc... If someone flips out, even a vase or coffee mug becomes a viable weapon...so what "appropriate actions" do you recommend?

[rotor]

Many of the electronic health records have this type of question built in. These records are government mandated and doctors that do not adapt to these records are penalized. They also want to know your ethnicity, your sexuality (gay or straight or whatever). All this is to be datamined by big brother and perhaps even NSA. Hopefully your doctor is putting NA in each of those boxes but don't for one second believe that the government mandate is not out there to track down this kind of info. And who knows where it goes. Many electronic health records are stored on the cloud. Easily reachable by NSA. Don't tell your doctor anything that you think should be confidential as even if the doctor says nothing it is datamined. Next will be microphones at confession to record your when you go to church. Or perhaps I am just paranoid. We know that NSA follows this forum.

Oh boy. I'll help. Or try to. I don't know if this will make it better or worse:
Doctors are encouraged to go to electronic records by 2015. That's true.
To the best of my knowledge, there is no "universal" means for storing patient data. That is, there are many many different providers of software, but no universal standard. There is no central database on everyone. There are lots of little databases in different forms.

Yes, questions can be personal and may offend some people. Many of the personal questions such as ethnicity and sexuality may actually have a bearing on your health. After all, if you're American Indian, you're more predisposed to certain conditions than other parts of the population. And yea, your sexual lifestyle plays a part in your health risks too. Offended? Yea, we don't like to talk about it. Relevant medical information? Absolutely. Do you have to answer? No.

Records can be stored in many forms. They can be stored on local storage in doctors offices, they can be stored on remote storage, they can be stored on cloud storage. Personally, the loss of my paper medical records could be a problem and I'd be happy if my doctor would choose to store them digitally with a secure remote backup.. Yes, even cloud-based! I keep electronic copies of my dogs vet records as well as my own. It's massively useful when visiting a new vet or doctor to have it all with you in one shot.

There is substantial and significant legislation around how your electronic health data can be stored by companies. It's non-trivial. You can't just pump it to the cloud and be HIPAA compliant. Our legislators have shown good faith there. Course, we know that anything that is electronic can be accessed... Just like paper records.

Look I think.. well... I know that the NSA is listening. If the federal government really wanted to know my ethnicity, sexuality, or if I own a gun - there are much easier ways to obtain that information than from covertly stealing electronic health records. When those records start containing DNA tracing - or other information that can be used for national security, I'll wear the tin-foil hat with you, but until then, it's just not something that I'm going to worry about.

cb1000rider, your trust in the HIPAA laws to protect medical information assumes that the government won't access the information. The questions about gun ownership are part of the medical record mandated by ???. Doctors don't automatically start adding these questions to their templates. The HIPAA laws fine you or private companies for releasing medical information. But when the IRS can pull off release of info to "friends" what makes you think that your medical info won't be scanned by the government and what would you do if they did scan it? Have you heard of Edward Snowden? The fact that your electronic records are all stored in house means nothing if you are part of a "portal" that shares records with other providers and if you are not yet doing this you will in the future. Everything will be on the internet and reachable by the same people that now read all of your emails, track all of your cell phone useage, etc. Sure, there are easier ways to find out if you own a gun but eventually they will just have internet "bots" tracking the records. When it come to HIPAA fines, have you ever heard of the government being fined?

[VoiceofReason]

I still hold the opinion, just say no and don’t make a big deal out of it, then find another doctor. This way you don’t have to put up with a hassle you shouldn’t have. If everyone did this they would eventually realize their little survey was useless and drop it.

I also think it would be hilarious Me: No. Doctor: Then what is that for (pointing to my IWB holster)? Me: How did that get there?

By the way, I have Medicare and have never been asked.

[VoiceofReason]

I always question forwarded information. Things that immediately jump out at me:
1) Why would it be illegal for your doctor to ask you if you own a firearm?

This post seems to be misinformation designed to spread. I'm beginning to see this more and more. The information makes us angry and feel passionately, but it's really not based on any fact. It also seems to be much more effective to spread non-truths than speak the truth.

Here's another link to it : http://fellowshipoftheminds.com/2012/10 ... own-a-gun/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
And here: http://gulfcoastgunforum.com/archive/in ... -2895.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The Government now requires these questions be asked of people on Medicare, and probably everyone else.

That sound right to you? It doesn't sound right to me.

Per Snopes, here is the origin:

This March 2012 item combines a claim that Medicare regulations require doctors to ask patients whether they keep guns in their houses with a 2009 piece about VA patients' being reported to Homeland Security and losing their concealed carry
permits for answering "yes" to any one of three diagnostic questions.
Read more at http://www.snopes.com/politics/guns/med ... 8bQuSmg.99" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

In the former case, although some doctors (particularly pediatricians) may ask their patients whether they have guns at home, there is no provision of Medicare regulations that requires them to do so; it's purely an individual initiative on the part of various doctors.

It also seems to be much more effective to spread non-truths than speak the truth.

A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.-Winston Churchill

[sailor2000]

Who is going to make that decision, and on what criteria? It can't simply be something like anyone over a certain age, or anyone receiving home health care, must not have access to guns/knives/bats, etc... If someone flips out, even a vase or coffee mug becomes a viable weapon...so what "appropriate actions" do you recommend?

A press release by the American Nurses Association noted that recent studies report that the non-fatal violence injury rate for nurses is considerably higher than for law enforcement personnel. In a study sponsored by ANA, more than 30% of the nurses in seven state nurses associations who responded to the survey reported having been victims of workplace violence in the previous year.

When a possible hazard exists we consult with the patient's physician, family, caregivers and when required to do so with Adult Protective Services and the Police Department, depending on the circumstances. There are circumstances in which we are required by law to involve the 'authorities'. We have a duty not only to the patient but to our staff to mitigate known hazards.

Nowhere did I propose or advocate that broad classes of people should be disarmed.

I hope that not even the staunchest defender of a persons right to keep and bear arms really wants a person with severe dementia, paranoia or who is having medication induced hallucinations or impaired judgment to have access to a firearm. (Or a kitchen knife, hammer or other weapon for that matter.) This is not an easy subject and that is why we are doing a special program on it.