Houston McDonald's CHL robbed but shoots well

[jmra]

My thinking;
They are in my car leaving, I'm waving adios.
Why? Because the deductible on my car is a whole lot less than what I'm going to spend on legal fees (both criminal and civil).
Think about it. Even if charges aren't filed you have to believe that the guy is going to want some kind of legal representation to make sure all the Ts are crossed and all the Is are dotted. And there will be a civil suit, even though without charges it should get dismissed, there will still be expenses.
Not to mention the fact that I'm not going to want my family riding around in a car a guy bled out in. And there will still be expense (insurance deductibles) in repairs to the vehicle (probably expensive when you factor in damage and hazmat clean up).
Then there is the whole psychological aspect of taking a life...
Yep, you can have it.

[chasfm11]

My thinking;
They are in my car leaving, I'm waving adios.
Why? Because the deductible on my car is a whole lot less than what I'm going to spend on legal fees (both criminal and civil).
Think about it. Even if charges aren't filed you have to believe that the guy is going to want some kind of legal representation to make sure all the Ts are crossed and all the Is are dotted. And there will be a civil suit, even though without charges it should get dismissed, there will still be expenses.
Not to mention the fact that I'm not going to want my family riding around in a car a guy bled out in. And there will still be expense (insurance deductibles) in repairs to the vehicle (probably expensive when you factor in damage and hazmat clean up).
Then there is the whole psychological aspect of taking a life...
Yep, you can have it.

I completely agree with you on letting them go IF all they want from me is my stuff. I'd sure hate to think about my last sight in this world being a BG shooting me out of my own car window and me thinking "if I had only tried to defend myself when they were distracted,,,," Too many BG don't seem to want to leave live witnesses who have LE on them before they are 3 blocks down the road. It is one heck of risk.

[jmra]

My thinking;
They are in my car leaving, I'm waving adios.
Why? Because the deductible on my car is a whole lot less than what I'm going to spend on legal fees (both criminal and civil).
Think about it. Even if charges aren't filed you have to believe that the guy is going to want some kind of legal representation to make sure all the Ts are crossed and all the Is are dotted. And there will be a civil suit, even though without charges it should get dismissed, there will still be expenses.
Not to mention the fact that I'm not going to want my family riding around in a car a guy bled out in. And there will still be expense (insurance deductibles) in repairs to the vehicle (probably expensive when you factor in damage and hazmat clean up).
Then there is the whole psychological aspect of taking a life...
Yep, you can have it.

I completely agree with you on letting them go IF all they want from me is my stuff. I'd sure hate to think about my last sight in this world being a BG shooting me out of my own car window and me thinking "if I had only tried to defend myself when they were distracted,,,," Too many BG don't seem to want to leave live witnesses who have LE on them before they are 3 blocks down the road. It is one heck of risk.

I'm probably waving with one hand, drawing with the other, and heading for cover with both feet. This way I am prepared to defend myself and by moving I'm making myself a much more difficult target to hit. I'm not at all suggesting rolling over and playing dead. I am suggesting that a car simply isn't worth the hassle that this guy will go thru.
It would be interesting to see the statistics to determine the odds of these guys taking out the victim once they are already in the car - I bet it happens much less than you suspect. I suspect that if they were going to shoot him they would have done it at closer range before getting into the car.

[bizarrenormality]

I would hate to be one of those people gunned down in cold blood after complying with their demands.

[jmra]

I would hate to be one of those people gunned down in cold blood after complying with their demands.

Actually, this guy didn't shoot until after he complied with all their demands. If this story does anything, it convinces BGs to shoot first then take what they want.

[texanjoker]

I think we need need a map APP to show where all these Houston incidents are as it seems we read about them a LOT.... I don't want to go to those areas.

Just avoid the entire Houston area.

Can't daughters select soccer team goes there... Guess I'll be carrying extra magazines, body armor and bringing my k9 when I go next week.

[texanjoker]

My thinking;
They are in my car leaving, I'm waving adios.
Why? Because the deductible on my car is a whole lot less than what I'm going to spend on legal fees (both criminal and civil).
Think about it. Even if charges aren't filed you have to believe that the guy is going to want some kind of legal representation to make sure all the Ts are crossed and all the Is are dotted. And there will be a civil suit, even though without charges it should get dismissed, there will still be expenses.
Not to mention the fact that I'm not going to want my family riding around in a car a guy bled out in. And there will still be expense (insurance deductibles) in repairs to the vehicle (probably expensive when you factor in damage and hazmat clean up).
Then there is the whole psychological aspect of taking a life...
Yep, you can have it.

It is not pleasant to go through a shooting investigation and lawsuit. Much better to avoid if possible.

[rotor]

My thinking;
They are in my car leaving, I'm waving adios.
Why? Because the deductible on my car is a whole lot less than what I'm going to spend on legal fees (both criminal and civil).
Think about it. Even if charges aren't filed you have to believe that the guy is going to want some kind of legal representation to make sure all the Ts are crossed and all the Is are dotted. And there will be a civil suit, even though without charges it should get dismissed, there will still be expenses.
Not to mention the fact that I'm not going to want my family riding around in a car a guy bled out in. And there will still be expense (insurance deductibles) in repairs to the vehicle (probably expensive when you factor in damage and hazmat clean up).
Then there is the whole psychological aspect of taking a life...
Yep, you can have it.

So you think the good guy in this case made the wrong decision. Just let the bad guys get away, come back next week and kill someone else, maybe they have already killed someone and you don't have to worry about anything more than the deductible on your insurance. Maybe they shoot you as they drive away as we know they were armed. I think the good guy made the right decision and I would venture that most people on this forum agree.

[bizarrenormality]

All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing.

[JALLEN]

All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing.

That is the line often quoted but decades of empirical observation leads me to a slight enhancement:

"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men have insurance."

I witnessed a minor auto accident about a month ago. No injuries, minor damage to cars. Today I got the call from the adjuster. I didn't like to be bothered, all those questions, trying to search to cobwebs of my memories, etc. It was a burden that impaired the serenity of my afternoon.

But, that is the burden one has to be ready to take on, if right is to triumph, kind of like jury duty, and finding a place to park at the polling places, filing income tax returns etc. Somebody has to do it.

As for the burden of taking a life, I don't think I will fret about it if that is my fate. I wouldn't harm an animal or another person ordinarily but in this situation, I don't have a problem with the BGs dying if it comes to that. No mistaken identity, no mistaking motive or evil intent, no burden of years in prison funded by the taxpayer taking up space some other BG could be in, and a blow struck to reduce recidivism.

[jmra]

My thinking;
They are in my car leaving, I'm waving adios.
Why? Because the deductible on my car is a whole lot less than what I'm going to spend on legal fees (both criminal and civil).
Think about it. Even if charges aren't filed you have to believe that the guy is going to want some kind of legal representation to make sure all the Ts are crossed and all the Is are dotted. And there will be a civil suit, even though without charges it should get dismissed, there will still be expenses.
Not to mention the fact that I'm not going to want my family riding around in a car a guy bled out in. And there will still be expense (insurance deductibles) in repairs to the vehicle (probably expensive when you factor in damage and hazmat clean up).
Then there is the whole psychological aspect of taking a life...
Yep, you can have it.

So you think the good guy in this case made the wrong decision.
I didn't say that at all. What I am saying is I wouldn't have shot them just in order to recover my car. If I felt that they were going to do more than take the car then I would have taken action. Perhaps that is the reason the victim acted - we don't know his mindset yet and may never know if he chooses not to share it.
Just let the bad guys get away, come back next week and kill someone else, maybe they have already killed someone and you don't have to worry about anything more than the deductible on your insurance.
I am neither a judge or an executioner. You have no way of knowing that they have killed anyone anymore than I know that they haven't. In 35 years of driving I have used my insurance exactly twice. Once for a broken window and once for hail damage. I would not have any remorse using my insurance if my car was stolen. Would you?
Maybe they shoot you as they drive away as we know they were armed.
Maybe the round I fire goes thru the BG and hits a bystander across the street. I'm not in the habit of dealing with maybes. I analyze the situation as time allows and make the most educated decision I can make at the time. If I felt that my life was still in danger and firing my weapon was my best alternative, I would not hesitate to do so. If other options existed that I felt would ensure my safety, I would pursue those options.
I think the good guy made the right decision and I would venture that most people on this forum agree.
At no time did I say he made the wrong decision. If I were in his shoes and I believed that the suspects intended to eliminate me as a potential witness, I would have taken whatever steps required to ensure they didn't succeed. In this case it appears the victim was well within his rights to fire even if he didn't feel his life was in danger (again we don't know if he felt that way or not). If he didn't feel his life was in danger and fired in order to recover his property, I don't fault him at all. He assessed the situation and determined the level of risk vs reward he was comfortable with and acted accordingly. I am simply saying that for me the risk associated with taking that action far outweighs the reward of recovering my property.

[rotor]

I have never had to make the decision before so I can not say with certainty what I would do but if three men tried to rob me at gunpoint, steal my car-wallet and phone and I had the opportunity to draw my weapon and stop them I believe I would. Considering that they were armed I think my life is in danger until they are well gone from the scene. Obviously in this case they were not well gone from the scene and very well may have shot the good guy if he didn't act first. I don't believe this was one of those chase after a speeding car and wounding the bad guys as they were a block away. And when they have your wallet and phone they also have your ID and can still do a lot of financial damage and even worse, they know where you live.

[o b juan]

B) the use of force other than deadly force to
protect or recover the land or property would expose the actor or
another to a substantial risk of death or serious bodily injury.

That should meet any requirment for justification

9.41 Says going after your property you may use force if in immediate pursuit

and b of 9.42 explains it to me

He would be exposed to death or serious bodily injury by trying to recover , because they had handguns I presume..

he was going after his stolen property ( aggravated robbery)
I am not an Attorney

[MechAg94]

If I am robbed of wallet and truck:

1. Insurance will likely only pay current value rather than replacement. Not the same as getting a new one.
2. I have other stuff in my truck that I would prefer not to lose.
3. I would need to replace my DL and CHL and credit cards and ATM card.
4. I would also need to cancel my credit cards and prepare to be a victim of identity theft.

I am sure there are more. Just pointing out there is a hell of a lot more to dealing with theft than just calling your insurance agent.

[jmra]

I have never had to make the decision before so I can not say with certainty what I would do but if three men tried to rob me at gunpoint, steal my car-wallet and phone and I had the opportunity to draw my weapon and stop them I believe I would. Considering that they were armed I think my life is in danger until they are well gone from the scene. Obviously in this case they were not well gone from the scene and very well may have shot the good guy if he didn't act first. I don't believe this was one of those chase after a speeding car and wounding the bad guys as they were a block away. And when they have your wallet and phone they also have your ID and can still do a lot of financial damage and even worse, they know where you live.

I have never had to pull the trigger, but I have been in a situation were I had to pull my weapon and was prepared to pull the trigger.
About 20 years ago I walked into my parents home only to discover several degenerates helping themselves to my families belongings. I was armed with a Tauras PT92. The BG closest to me was armed with a knife. Don't know if the others were armed or not. As soon as the gun entered the situation the knife hit the floor and all the degenerates hit the back door.
I have no doubt that I would have been justified in shooting them but I think God everyday that I didn't have to. If the BG hadn't drooped the knife or one of the others had stepped forward with a weapon I would not have hesitated to stop the threat. But, I know my life would have changed drastically had I done so.
Many at the time said I should have shot them, that letting them go only meant that they would come back later. No one ever came back and break ins in the area all but ceased for several years.
As you stated, you don't know what you'll do until you are faced with the situation. When you are faced with it you make the best decision you can make at the time and pray that you are right. One day I may have to pull the trigger, but if I do, I will know it was because I had no other option in ensuring the safety of my family and myself.
Again, these are my convictions - I have not and will not impose them on anyone else. To borrow a phrase, every man must work out his own salvation.