Has this happened to you? Someone calls a LEO?

[Eljefe007]

I'm wondering what will happen if (say sitting down in a restaurant or just walking around Walmart) and someone notices my concealed gun and calls the police? Will I get arrested? Will I lose my CHL? Just wondering.

I've tried looking for answers or discussion but to no avail.

[Keith B]

Tons of previous discussion on this. Try this link and look at the topics http://texaschlforum.com/search.php?key ... mit=Search" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Keith B]

Also, this is the only case we know where a CHL was arrested for accidentally exposing his handgun http://texaschlforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=31719" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[SewTexas]

keep in mind that the law now offers us a bit of protection regarding accidental display.

but keep it covered and you'll be ok.

[The Annoyed Man]

I'm wondering what will happen if (say sitting down in a restaurant or just walking around Walmart) and someone notices my concealed gun and calls the police? Will I get arrested? Will I lose my CHL? Just wondering.

I've tried looking for answers or discussion but to no avail.

Bottom line, it takes intentional failure to conceal to be convicted of a crime, but that may not stop an ignorant LEO from giving you a tour of the backseat of his squad car and a ride downtown. Fortunately though, most Texas LEOs seem to be well-informed on the law, and disinclined to unnecessarily arrest a CHL holder.

[cb1000rider]

Also, this is the only case we know where a CHL was arrested for accidentally exposing his handgun http://texaschlforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=31719" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

To be specific, he was arrested for intentionally exposing his handgun in a situation where actual intent was very unlikely. To me, it demonstrated that at least one Round Rock LEO knew the law very well and chose to specify intent. The Annoyed Man has a good summary that I completely agree with.

[Keith B]

Also, this is the only case we know where a CHL was arrested for accidentally exposing his handgun http://texaschlforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=31719" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

To be specific, he was arrested for intentionally exposing his handgun in a situation where actual intent was very unlikely. To me, it demonstrated that at least one Round Rock LEO knew the law very well and chose to specify intent. The Annoyed Man has a good summary that I completely agree with.

You're picking nits. He accidentally exposed the gun, it was not intentional. What I was saying is he accidentally exposed the gun, but was arrested because the gun was seen. They charged him with intentional failure to conceal.

[cb1000rider]

It's the nit that got him arrested. I agree with you on intent - it was clearly unintentional. If I recall right, the arresting officer made a written point to indicate that the exposure was intentional, which is a bit ridiculous in my mind... I'd love to know if anything in terms of Round Rock policy changed over this incident, but as far as I know it just ended up costing a bunch of money only to get dropped...

The good news is that much searching has indicated to me that this isn't a common occurrence. I'm a bit intimidated and alarmed that it happened so close to where I reside, but that's just me... I wonder if someone with access to Lexus/Nexus could tell us how many "intentional failure to conceal" cases actually are on the books in Texas in the last X years...

The only other case I've read about is about a biker who was wearing a shoulder rig under a vest. Pretty much open carry, which caused alarm and lead to an arrest that I'm a lot less concerned about.

[The Annoyed Man]

Also, this is the only case we know where a CHL was arrested for accidentally exposing his handgun http://texaschlforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=31719" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

To be specific, he was arrested for intentionally exposing his handgun in a situation where actual intent was very unlikely. To me, it demonstrated that at least one Round Rock LEO knew the law very well and chose to specify intent. The Annoyed Man has a good summary that I completely agree with.

Basic summary is this: He unintentionall exposed his gun, but was arrested for intentional failure to conceal. The county prosecutor eventually agreed with Handog, and charges were dropped.

1. He had the gun, a baby Glock 36, in a Bianchi 100 Professional IWB Holster, concealed under his shirt tail. (I seem to remember that it was in a SOB position, but I could be wrong about that.)
2. He was sitting in a chair, waiting for his number to be called.
3. While sitting in the chair, the back of his shirt, rubbing against the chair-back, rode up bit by bit until the gun was exposed.
4. When his number was called, he stood up.
5. His shirt had ridden up far enough that the gun (unknown to him because it was in an SOB (small of the back) holster) was exposed to the woman sitting behind him.
6. Nothing was said at that moment. He realized the problem, pulled his shirt-tail down and covered the gun, and completed his transaction.
7. Unknown to Handog, The woman who saw his gun phoned in a MWAG call.
8. He transacted his business and left.
9. All the squad cars in the planet converged on him in the parking lot, and all the cops drew down on him.
10. He was arrested for intentional failure to conceal, despite the fact that it was unintentional.
11. In the end, the MWAG call and the arrest were recognized as being bogus, and after some lawyer fees, he was let go. He still has his CHL as far as I know.

Details of that arrest here: viewtopic.php?f=7&t=31719&p=369342#p369342" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

There used to be a thread prior to that one in which he had given the details in greater detail, but I believe that he deleted it soon after on advice of counsel, as the case was not yet decided. As I recall, the jurisdiction was Round Rock, but I could be wrong about that.

As Keith pointed out above, this is a pretty rare occurrence, and Handog's experience is the only one most of us know about. Just do a conscientious of concealing your gun, don't pluck at your clothing all the time, and don't worry about it. Find subtle ways to check your concealment whenever you transition from sitting to standing or visa-versa.

[bdickens]

These people around here are so on top of it that if there was another incident besides handog's, you can be sure we'd know all about it.

[DLBConductor]

I have a different problem. After completing my local Citizen's Police Academy and doing ride-a-longs, the local police know me pretty well and know that I carry concealed. In public, they are very likely ask me,"What are you carrying today?" It is hard to keep my concealed carrying a secret when that happens. It doesn't really bother me because they are generally discreet when they ask me.

[Jaguar]

I have a different problem. After completing my local Citizen's Police Academy and doing ride-a-longs, the local police know me pretty well and know that I carry concealed. In public, they are very likely ask me,"What are you carrying today?" It is hard to keep my concealed carrying a secret when that happens. It doesn't really bother me because they are generally discreet when they ask me.

Just look around nervously and whisper, "Shhhh, it's a secrete."

[CHLLady]

I read through Handogs thread about it and it made my head spin. THANK YOU Annoyed Man for the summary!

I have wondered about this very subject also. People on this forum have given great suggestions on replies, if questioned about what they have concealed, but I don't recall reading anything about what to reply if its actually seen and confirmed to be a gun.

Does anyone feel obligated to show the person their CHL and explain yourself before the situation escalates? Anyone with experience with this? Should I create a new topic for this question?

[The Annoyed Man]

Does anyone feel obligated to show the person their CHL and explain yourself before the situation escalates? Anyone with experience with this? Should I create a new topic for this question?

It depends on how calm the other person was. IF he/she was calm and grinning and asked if I had a license to carry, I'd probably just nod and leave it at that. I'd never show that person my CHL unless they were an LEO. It's none of their business. It's got my personal information on it, and I don't know who that person is. You can leave or stay, but it doesn't matter. A person that is hysterical is going to call the law regardless of what you do, and a person like that wouldn't know a CHL from a library card, so showing it them would be pointless. If someone were to loudly/hysterically challenge me with "DO YOU HAVE A LICENSE FOR THAT THING!?!?!?!" I'd either answer "who wants to know?" or just ignore the question. Depends on the situation. The point is, don't let the thing escalate in the first place. You can't fix stupid. Not ever. Only stupid can fix stupid.....albeit often painfully. If it looks like it might be headed into full retard, don't contribute to the conversation, and leave if you can before it gets to that point. If you can't leave for some reason, then have your TDL and CHL handy in a shirt pocket or something so that when the cops do drive up, you can hand it to them before they even start asking questions. If your gun actually was unintentionally exposed, you can say, "I don't know, it might have been for just a moment when I was getting out of my car....." Or "the breeze blew my jacket open before I could catch it....." or any number of other answers. What's important is that the cop understands that you did NOT draw your gun, that any exposure was unintentional, and it wouldn't hurt if you told the cop that you had actually tried to deescalate the situation, but the other party was increasingly hysterical, and you were unable to get away from him/her. Apologize to the cop and say you're sorry that he/she had to get dragged all the way out here for such a ridiculous call.

Each situation is going to be unique, but honestly, I think most of us go through our entire CHL existences without ever having an issue with someone else, particularly with a stranger. We have members here who have gotten out of their car and walked into Walmart, did their shopping, paid and left, before discovering that their gun was in the open the whole time. NOBODY NOTICED. Most people just aren't that aware of their surroundings. Be aware of your responsibilities as an armed citizen. Be aware of the things you are NOT responsible for (it's not a Batman license). Dress around your gun, not the other way around. Have confidence in your carry method. Strap it on. Cover it up. Forget about it.

You can't live your life worrying about other people's possible issues. The world is full of hysterical stupid people. Most of them vote democrat and have issues with your devotion to the Constitution. Ignore them. They are busybodies, and they spend most of their energy on trying to tell everyone else how to live. Their animus against your having a gun is only a part of their worldview. And unless they are LEO, they have ZERO authority to demand to see your CHL.

Period.

[TexasCajun]

The main thing to remember is to stay calm & be polite. That should cover you for the majority of encounters - both gun-related and not.