Fort Worth police shoot elderly man

[Middle Age Russ]

E. Marquez' makes a very good point.

it matters not who does the investigation, if the LEOs involved come out with a clean shoot..... even if the investigation is done by the Texas Rangers, FBI, there will be some that will continue to cry foul. This is a no win for the officer that fired his weapon, department, the citizens and of course, the deceased.

Judging simply from comments posted on this thread it is clear only that this incident resulted in the tragic death of one man and the reputations of the Fort Worth PD and the officers involved have suffered. All involved deserve our prayers. It is hard to think of any good that might come from such an event, but perhaps the investigation may result in procedural changes that may minimize these sorts of events in the future.

[Ericstac]

Someone mentioned the 6/6 shots the officer made and I have to agree. I don't see how this cop could be searching this property and shoot some old man 6/6 times. Are cops not trained to get a visual of your target before firing? Surely they are and if so what was going through his mind when he got his visual of a 72 year old man.

Okay, let's say the victim was confused and didn't put the gun down, and worse, aimed it at the cops thinking they were bad guys... SIX times? Really Mr. copper? Does anyone really think having a visual on a 72 yr old man who is obviously confused warrants six shots to the chest... No. Single..maybe a double tap and I could say yeah this was an error.. But to do six shots is just nonsense and shows this cop, who obviously trains with his weapon a lot, wanted more than to stop this poor old man.

You have never shot at, or shot a human have you

Just a guess.... but that sir is the only takeaway from your post I can gather.

No fortunately I have never had to but i have been shot at and the few times it happened it was not more than two shots and missed every time..

[VMI77]

http://www.wfaa.com/news/local/tarrant/ ... 07171.html

Jerry Waller was killed inside his own garage in the Woodhaven neighborhood early Tuesday morning.

A pair of Fort Worth police officers, who have been on the force less than a year, were responding to a burglary alarm in the area.

There's two problems with this. The first is, what does killed inside his garage mean? If they wrote shot while inside his garage, that would be specific. Killed inside his garage could mean that's where he expired. The imprecision of the language lends itself to speculation. Secondly, citing that the officers were on the force for less than a year is prejudicial. It leads the reader to the obvious conclusion that they were young, inexperienced and screwed up. Those aren't facts. They are suppositions.

No, the language is quite precise. Killed inside means just what it says: killed inside. If he was shot outside the garage and then died inside, it would say died inside. It doesn't mean he was shot elsewhere and died in the garage unless the author of the article is not conversant with the English language. Killed is the past tense of "kill," and kill is defined thus:

kill
verb \ˈkil\
transitive verb
1
a : to deprive of life : cause the death of

....killed (Caused the death of) inside....

And it's a little strange from the logical point of view how you accept the police version and reject the homeowner's version.

The homeowner is dead. How could he have a version?

Again, as I've repeatedly stated, we don't have enough facts to make any judgments about what happened, and speculation about what happened merely fuels conspiracy theories.

I'm guessing here on this one, that the surviving spouse also has an ownership interest in the house. She said all she could see was their flashlights and couldn't tell they were police officers.

What "conspiracy" theories? According to the link I provided an old man got killed inside his garage by police officers responding to a burglar alarm? The guy either committed suicide by cop or he didn't realize he was confronting police officers until it was too late. How can any plausible "conspiracy" be developed out of that?

[E.Marquez]

What "conspiracy" theories? According to the link I provided an old man got killed inside his garage by police officers responding to a burglar alarm? The guy either committed suicide by cop or he didn't realize he was confronting police officers until it was too late. How can any plausible "conspiracy" be developed out of that?

Its not a conspiracy, when it's true
http://www.erikbscott.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Just saying.. there are more than the two scenarios then you have proposed..

He realised it was LEO's.. and they engaged anyway...

Two officers, but reasonable inexperienced, and both likely highly animated in there attempt to control the situation...

STOP
GET DOWN
DON'T MOVE
RAISE YOUR HANDS
GET ON THE GROUND
DROP THE GUN
DON'T MOVE
GET DOWN....

BANG, BANG< BANG< BANGBANG....Bang.....
Because once that point is reached,, you fire until the perceived threat is no longer a threat..... ie not moving or physically separated from the gun. .. Preferable both.

I'm not going all nuts so and claiming it was intentional or murder.... Not even saying it was the officer's fault at all.... or the decedent. Just that there are many possibilities in addition to He knew it was a cop and wanted to die, or did not know it was a cop.

Time and an independent investigation MAY tell us more.. or it may not vis vis Erik Scott

[VMI77]

What "conspiracy" theories? According to the link I provided an old man got killed inside his garage by police officers responding to a burglar alarm? The guy either committed suicide by cop or he didn't realize he was confronting police officers until it was too late. How can any plausible "conspiracy" be developed out of that?

Its not a conspiracy, when it's true
http://www.erikbscott.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Just saying.. there are more than the two scenarios then you have proposed..

He realised it was LEO's.. and they engaged anyway...

Two officers, but reasonable inexperienced, and both likely highly animated in there attempt to control the situation...

STOP
GET DOWN
DON'T MOVE
RAISE YOUR HANDS
GET ON THE GROUND
DROP THE GUN
DON'T MOVE
GET DOWN....

BANG, BANG< BANG< BANGBANG....Bang.....
Because once that point is reached,, you fire until the perceived threat is no longer a threat..... ie not moving or physically separated from the gun. .. Preferable both.

I'm not going all nuts so and claiming it was intentional or murder.... Not even saying it was the officer's fault at all.... or the decedent. Just that there are many possibilities in addition to He knew it was a cop and wanted to die, or did not know it was a cop.

Time and an independent investigation MAY tell us more.. or it may not vis vis Erik Scott

I agree all that is possible, but based on the information made available, and especially the radio call, it doesn't appear to be an Erik Scott scenario (if the radio call was truthful). Also, I'm not expressing certainty by calling out only two possibilities, just what seems, based on the limited available information, most plausible and most probable. In speculating we can't completely dismiss any possibility but as far as the old man deliberately engaging.....I don't find that scenario very plausible, but if he did and was not mentally ill, it is tantamount to suicide by cop.

In any case, I don't see a conspiracy in the Erik Scott case, as far as killing Scott is concerned. A conspiracy after the fact to cover up negligence or mistakes, and a process that facilitates cover ups, yeah, apparently.....sort of looks SOP for Las Vegas.

[carlson1]

According to NBC 5 in Dallas the Ft. Worth Police Department blamed "poor lighting" for the reason they shot Mr. Jerry Waller.

It is reported that the Ft. Worth PD said all the officers had were flashlights.

[talltex]

According to NBC 5 in Dallas the Ft. Worth Police Department blamed "poor lighting" for the reason they shot Mr. Jerry Waller.

It is reported that the Ft. Worth PD said all the officers had were flashlights.

Hmmm....I guess it must've been dark back there... behind the wrong house...and the flashlights might have been defective, since the officers didn't notice the address numbers painted on the curb of the driveway they used to walk behind the house...and maybe Mr. Waller's garage light didn't come on when he raised his garage door and was shot by the officers. Yep, I bet that excuse makes all the folk in the neighborhood feel much better. Probably be a run on outdoor floodlights at Home Depot tomorrow to avoid getting blamed if they get shot by mistake too.

[rbwhatever1]

Stupid avoidable tragedy. Police Officers are paid to put their lives on the line. Not the lives of Citizens. It's a higher calling of Duty. Sacrifice. Honor. Courage. I see the opposite here. An American Citizen gunned down because a Police Officer refused to put his life on the line and protect the very citizens he is entrusted to protect and serve.

Now we are all to believe that it was the fault of the Universe for creating darkness.

A Badge does not give one of honor, courage, sense of duty and pride any thought whatsoever of shooting an American so he can go home at night. A Badge on a true Police Officer, just like a Rifle in the hands of an Honorable Soldier, should give one pause to make sound decisions and always try to do what's right. A higher calling. Duty. Pride. Courage. Honor. Sacrifice.

I think those words are foreign to a few of our Police Officers. Losing an honorable Police Officer is a Tragedy. Losing a Law Abiding American Citizen at the hand of a Police Officer is an abomination.

[drjoker]

Stupid avoidable tragedy. Police Officers are paid to put their lives on the line. Not the lives of Citizens. It's a higher calling of Duty. Sacrifice. Honor. Courage. I see the opposite here. An American Citizen gunned down because a Police Officer refused to put his life on the line and protect the very citizens he is entrusted to protect and serve.

The fact of the matter is, that this is a case of mistaken identity, HOWEVER, if the tables were turned and the old man shot the cop, I seriously doubt that the old man would be out on "administrative PAID leave." He'd probably be sitting in jail pending payment of bail, if he can afford it. This is NOT liberty. Liberty is when the law applies equally to all citizens, cops or not. Being in the government doesn't give you special powers over others because it is a government BY THE PEOPLE and FOR THE PEOPLE, so if anything, the power of government should be less than that of the people.

Sadly, too many cops think that everyone else should "Obey my authority!" (or else suffer a violent end).

P.S. the take away message is this: ALWAYS treat every interaction with LEO with kid gloves, record video, audio, and post online immediately so that it couldn't be deleted off your phone later. Remember, cops are people too, some are good and some are bad. Be careful out there....

P.P.S. Here's some fun footage of a cop who shoots an unarmed woman dead for rolling up her windows and driving away because she wouldn't obey his verbal orders to stop her car. He lies and claims that she dragged him with her car. However, an eyewitness saw the officer shooting the woman once after she drove away. Then, to cover up his crime, he chases after the car on foot as it slows down (woman was shot) and then fires 5 more times to make sure the woman is dead (so she can't tell her side of the story). http://youtu.be/BSPhC916GQM

The husband of the slain woman then "dies of natural causes" after he files a $5.3 million lawsuit against the police. Guess who ruled that it was "natural causes"? Police investigators! At the very least, another police department or the FBI should investigate it or internal affairs should investigate it. Instead, the wolves are telling the sheep, "it wasn't me." http://youtu.be/V7zYqCvLbWQ

Police officers should all be elected officials. We should all push for that. That's the only way to weed out rogue cops that I can see.

Here are some cops who beat a man LYING ON THE GROUND to death. Witnesses had it all on video. Cops confiscated the video.
http://youtu.be/7taxYcpEfX4

[Diesel42]

Thank you Drjoker.
With respect to our Forum Rules, I am sincerely concerned with the behavior of the Fort Worth Police Department. The leadership there is releasing nothing because this case "may be litigated". I don't trust the department and I don't want them anywhere near me or my property. My neighbors here in Woodhaven feel as I do. I feel terrible that all my cultural training to respect LEOs has been thrown out the window because the Police Chief is not leading the department in a constructive manner. I have suggested a third party review using the DPS and his response to me was condesending. I was informed that the department will review the case, the Grand Jury will review the case and the FBI will review the case. I'm sorry, I'm not buying the Chief's assurances.

Stupid avoidable tragedy. Police Officers are paid to put their lives on the line. Not the lives of Citizens. It's a higher calling of Duty. Sacrifice. Honor. Courage. I see the opposite here. An American Citizen gunned down because a Police Officer refused to put his life on the line and protect the very citizens he is entrusted to protect and serve.

The fact of the matter is, that this is a case of mistaken identity, HOWEVER, if the tables were turned and the old man shot the cop, I seriously doubt that the old man would be out on "administrative PAID leave." He'd probably be sitting in jail pending payment of bail, if he can afford it. This is NOT liberty. Liberty is when the law applies equally to all citizens, cops or not. Being in the government doesn't give you special powers over others because it is a government BY THE PEOPLE and FOR THE PEOPLE, so if anything, the power of government should be less than that of the people.

Sadly, too many cops think that everyone else should "Obey my authority!" (or else suffer a violent end).

P.S. the take away message is this: ALWAYS treat every interaction with LEO with kid gloves, record video, audio, and post online immediately so that it couldn't be deleted off your phone later. Remember, cops are people too, some are good and some are bad. Be careful out there....

P.P.S. Here's some fun footage of a cop who shoots an unarmed woman dead for rolling up her windows and driving away because she wouldn't obey his verbal orders to stop her car. He lies and claims that she dragged him with her car. However, an eyewitness saw the officer shooting the woman once after she drove away. Then, to cover up his crime, he chases after the car on foot as it slows down (woman was shot) and then fires 5 more times to make sure the woman is dead (so she can't tell her side of the story). http://youtu.be/BSPhC916GQM

The husband of the slain woman then "dies of natural causes" after he files a $5.3 million lawsuit against the police. Guess who ruled that it was "natural causes"? Police investigators! At the very least, another police department or the FBI should investigate it or internal affairs should investigate it. Instead, the wolves are telling the sheep, "it wasn't me." http://youtu.be/V7zYqCvLbWQ

Police officers should all be elected officials. We should all push for that. That's the only way to weed out rogue cops that I can see.

Here are some cops who beat a man LYING ON THE GROUND to death. Witnesses had it all on video. Cops confiscated the video.
http://youtu.be/7taxYcpEfX4

[K.Mooneyham]

Thank you Drjoker.
With respect to our Forum Rules, I am sincerely concerned with the behavior of the Fort Worth Police Department. The leadership there is releasing nothing because this case "may be litigated". I don't trust the department and I don't want them anywhere near me or my property. My neighbors here in Woodhaven feel as I do. I feel terrible that all my cultural training to respect LEOs has been thrown out the window because the Police Chief is not leading the department in a constructive manner. I have suggested a third party review using the DPS and his response to me was condesending. I was informed that the department will review the case, the Grand Jury will review the case and the FBI will review the case. I'm sorry, I'm not buying the Chief's assurances.

Stupid avoidable tragedy. Police Officers are paid to put their lives on the line. Not the lives of Citizens. It's a higher calling of Duty. Sacrifice. Honor. Courage. I see the opposite here. An American Citizen gunned down because a Police Officer refused to put his life on the line and protect the very citizens he is entrusted to protect and serve.

The fact of the matter is, that this is a case of mistaken identity, HOWEVER, if the tables were turned and the old man shot the cop, I seriously doubt that the old man would be out on "administrative PAID leave." He'd probably be sitting in jail pending payment of bail, if he can afford it. This is NOT liberty. Liberty is when the law applies equally to all citizens, cops or not. Being in the government doesn't give you special powers over others because it is a government BY THE PEOPLE and FOR THE PEOPLE, so if anything, the power of government should be less than that of the people.

Sadly, too many cops think that everyone else should "Obey my authority!" (or else suffer a violent end).

P.S. the take away message is this: ALWAYS treat every interaction with LEO with kid gloves, record video, audio, and post online immediately so that it couldn't be deleted off your phone later. Remember, cops are people too, some are good and some are bad. Be careful out there....

P.P.S. Here's some fun footage of a cop who shoots an unarmed woman dead for rolling up her windows and driving away because she wouldn't obey his verbal orders to stop her car. He lies and claims that she dragged him with her car. However, an eyewitness saw the officer shooting the woman once after she drove away. Then, to cover up his crime, he chases after the car on foot as it slows down (woman was shot) and then fires 5 more times to make sure the woman is dead (so she can't tell her side of the story). http://youtu.be/BSPhC916GQM

The husband of the slain woman then "dies of natural causes" after he files a $5.3 million lawsuit against the police. Guess who ruled that it was "natural causes"? Police investigators! At the very least, another police department or the FBI should investigate it or internal affairs should investigate it. Instead, the wolves are telling the sheep, "it wasn't me." http://youtu.be/V7zYqCvLbWQ

Police officers should all be elected officials. We should all push for that. That's the only way to weed out rogue cops that I can see.

Here are some cops who beat a man LYING ON THE GROUND to death. Witnesses had it all on video. Cops confiscated the video.
http://youtu.be/7taxYcpEfX4

That was in my email to the Mayor, a suggestion that the Rangers do the investigation. They have as good a reputation for law enforcement as you will find in this state. Obviously, I never heard anything back from the Mayor's office. This story REALLY has me thinking about going to a big-box improvement store and purchasing motion sensor floodlights.

[talltex]

The fact of the matter is, that this is a case of mistaken identity, HOWEVER, if the tables were turned and the old man shot the cop, I seriously doubt that the old man would be out on "administrative PAID leave."

Not JUST mistaken identity...gross negligence also...they were at the wrong address. They responded to an alarm across the street...they approached on foot and walked up the driveway, which has the street address number clearly painted on the curb right at the driveway entrance, and shot Mr. Waller in his own garage when he raised the door.

[drjoker]

That was in my email to the Mayor, a suggestion that the Rangers do the investigation. They have as good a reputation for law enforcement as you will find in this state. Obviously, I never heard anything back from the Mayor's office. This story REALLY has me thinking about going to a big-box improvement store and purchasing motion sensor floodlights.

Yes, great idea, let's all write the mayor. The police officer is not an elected official but the mayor is. Is the mayor able to hire and fire police officers? Can the mayor decide how much to pay the police chief? I was wondering how much sway the mayor has over this situation, pardon my ignorance.

[drjoker]

Thank you Drjoker.
With respect to our Forum Rules, I am sincerely concerned with the behavior of the Fort Worth Police Department.

I've been warned before about the forum rules, but I don't think it is "cop bashing" if it is the truth and not a blanket statement of all cops.

It is not good for police to become millitarized instead of serving the people. It actually increases crime because people will start joining criminal gangs to protect themselves against bad cops. That's because bully cops are cowards. They're not afraid of Joe Q Public but they are afraid of Mr. Narco Devil. Just look at Mexico and Venezuela to see what happens when there are too many bully cops. It becomes a war zone with criminal gangs on one side and bully cops on the other side. In inner cities, where there are a lot of bad cops, there is a criminal gang problem. In Plano, TX, where the cops are good, there is no gang problem (yes, there are gangs still, but not a "gang problem" like they have in Chicago, L.A., etc.). We need to use the power of our vote and have demonstrations!

[mamabearCali]

I am sure the grieving widow, and neighborhood are much comforted that the LEO's responding to night calls did not bother to make sure they had working flashlights and thus a law abiding citizen was killed. Really? This is what we pay tax dollars for? For heavens sakes.....I have several flashlights around they can borrow one of mine.

I swear I think that I would prefer to hear that the dog ate their homework, because that is what this kind of excuse is.