Has anyone figured out why the Immigration push?

[rotor]

The reason the democrats are pushing it is obvious, votes. Most blacks vote democtratic. Most hispanic vote democratic. If I were a democrat I would want more blacks and hispanics on the voting roles and would probably try to ban old white voters completely. Same reason the justice department went after voter id in Texas. It's not the money so much but the votes. This way the democrats create a new third world country with their elite leaders enslaving us. I feel like I am in The Matrix. Why are the republicans in the senate pushing it though- perhaps to really fire up the Tea Party which will get some dems or repubs out? In either event, I don't see it getting through the house and the senate republicans can say we were for "you".

[The Annoyed Man]

karder,
I generally agree with our assessment.

I think it's a great example of fear-mongering that has resulted in constituents with massively opposite views. As such, the Republican party can't do anything that doesn't include "increasing border security". I'd like it if they just framed it in reality: It's going to result in a tax increase. Maybe not today. Maybe not tomorrow. But it will hit eventually. I'm bet some of those guys are smart enough to know that doubling our border patrols (again) isn't going to solve the problem, but they also know that they need a token for their constituents.

You can erect a huge wall. As long as we essentially look the other way once you're about 60 miles off the border in terms of employment, the size and difficulty of the "border security" just makes it a little harder to get here.

We should accept the things we either can't or are unwilling to change, such as real enforcement against people or companies that benefit from this labor, we could have a constructive discussion of what we should do about it. There is a lot we could do to make it easier to go back and forth, with an emphasis on the BACK. We could tax the privilege to work here, as these people are spending real money to get here illegally. We could limit benefits (excluding emergencies) and do something about the current "anchor-baby" policy that is the origin of welfare and support.

With that discussion, we have to recognize and look past the fear mongering. We (US citizens) get very real and tangible economic benefits due to these workers. If they magically evaporated overnight, we would all feel it in our wallets... But no one talks about that.

Gut TSA, and suddenly you can afford a lot more Border Patrol Agents. Gut BATFE, and suddenly you can afford a bunch more. Get my drift? We CAN have a tighter border if we adjust what we're willing to pay for, and it isn't necessary to extort more money out of the taxpayer to pay for it. Gut welfare and people will go back to work to take the jobs they used to fill when I was a mere laddie, and the illegal immigration population will dry up. The vast majority of them did not come here for political reasons. They came here for economy reasons. If you remove those reasons by removing welfare, forcing people to work, then those jobs will dry up, and illegal immigration will dry up with it.

Ben Franklin is alleged to have once said:

“I am for doing good to the poor, but...I think the best way of doing good to the poor, is not making them easy in poverty, but leading or driving them out of it. I observed...that the more public provisions were made for the poor, the less they provided for themselves, and of course became poorer. And, on the contrary, the less was done for them, the more they did for themselves, and became richer.”

We do not do favors for the chronically unemployed by paying them to stay out of the labor force. The more people are in the labor force, the more tax revenues are collected. The less money they make washing dishes, and suffer a bit because of it, the more incentive they will have to do the things required to improve their existences. It's all part of a big organic whole, and we have to treat it holistically, not by paying people to stay home.

But instead of doing these perfectly sane things, we create generations of people who think they are entitled to the benefits they receive from the labors of their betters. And yes, these people ARE their betters. It takes a pretty low person to make the deliberate decision to just stay home and live off the public dole. That is a person who is deficient of character. The rest of us should not be required to support the character deficient. I am not talking about unemployment insurance. I'm not even talking about temporary state charity. One measure of a culture is how well it takes care of its less fortunate. But when you live chronically on the public dole, you are no longer unfortunate, are you? You HAVE a job, and your job is to stay home and get paid.

Instead of actually wanting to fix things, progressives are hard at work implementing the Cloward-Piven strategy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cloward%E2 ... n_strategy), and it IS working. They don't want to fix the immigration problem because as long as it remains broken, they accelerate that strategy. If they can rig it by means of "immigration reform" so that these illegals can vote themselves more of the taxpayer's largess (and they WILL) then that strategy will accelerate so fast that we'll see it come to fruition in my lifetime.........which, because I'm 60 years old, means within the next 20 years. Think about that for a moment........the COMPLETE collapse of the USA as a world power, as even a country able to meet its obligations to its citizens.

We HAVE to close the border.......not to prevent immigration, but to prevent ILLEGAL immigration. Traitors.... excuse me, I meant to say "democrats".......don't WANT to control the border. It is not in their party's interest.

[cb1000rider]

I choose to believe, perhaps incorrectly, that the American people will support politicians who make responsible decisions. Our country was not won by men who were taking the politically safest steps and racking up personal wealth along the way. Our founding fathers two options were victory or the gallows when they decided to seek independence from the British. I doubt there are many in Washington who step into those waters today.

I wish I believed that. Unfortunately, I continue to hear the same thing from the majority:
1) We won't accept new taxes, we'll either find waste or the economy will expand and we'll get ourselves out of a massive deficit.
2) I won't accept cuts to my special interest. Could be medicaid, medicare, defense, education, border security, or a real special interest. It's always "cut my neighbors program, not mine".
3) And most want promises of new services or improvements of existing services.

We don't elect people that are going to cut the services that we're interested in. We certainly won't elect anyone that indicates he/she might raise taxes. No one accepts that we've already spent the money.

It's the same deal over and over. We elect the people that promise the most and ignore reality...

And the fear mongering... Even on this forum is ridiculous. There are so many outrageous claims that the masses just believe on faith because it supports their personal agenda. I'm not talking just conservative or just liberal. It happens on both sides.

Yea.. What is wrong with people?

[Oldgringo]

Has anyone figured out why the Immigration push?

Votes?

[cb1000rider]

Gut TSA, and suddenly you can afford a lot more Border Patrol Agents. Gut BATFE, and suddenly you can afford a bunch more. Get my drift? We CAN have a tighter border if we adjust what we're willing to pay for, and it isn't necessary to extort more money out of the taxpayer to pay for it. Gut welfare and people will go back to work to take the jobs they used to fill when I was a mere laddie, and the illegal immigration population will dry up. The vast majority of them did not come here for political reasons. They came here for economy reasons. If you remove those reasons by removing welfare, forcing people to work, then those jobs will dry up, and illegal immigration will dry up with it.

Gut the TSA? Oh goodness, as a pilot and a passenger, the thought brings joy to my heart.
I cannot think of a bigger waste of tax payer dollars. And yes, I'd absolutely accept some level of increased risk and perhaps significant civilian casualties that gutting the TSA "might" cause.

The thing is, gutting the TSA won't bring our budget in line. It'd help.. And I'll give you that you just presented a way to pay for increased border security.

On welfare: Be specific. Welfare isn't the problem.. Sure, there is some waste there, but being on welfare is much tougher to sustain than it used to be. Most life-long welfare recipients have transitioned to disability. These days people get on disability with a little help from one of the thousands of disability specialist attorneys out there.. And guess what? Once they're on, they're on for life... I'm with you, require annual reviews for all but the most obvious disability cases.

Immigration would also dry with a little more help:
1) Start seriously prosecuting (criminal and financial) the people and companies that currently openly hire illegals. That would mean loss of some political dollars for sure, so it won't be easy to pass.
2) Create a reasonable guest worker program that is easy to get into for non-criminals. Make it expensive (but less than the cost of getting here illegally) and require a return trip.

Traitors.... excuse me, I meant to say "democrats".......don't WANT to control the border. It is not in their party's interest.

I think what you've said is true also. It's not in the interest of the Democratic party to anger voting Hispanics. However, lets all recognize two things:
1) That there is a massive business advantage in some industries (construction, agriculture, etc) to retaining our current way of looking the other way. These businesses aren't necessarily Democratic and they fill political pockets.
2) The truth is that the illegals also contribute significantly to our economy. We talk all the time about the drain on the economy, but there is a financial upside too... And it benefits you and me, especially in Texas. Lets me honest about it.

[TexasCajun]

In simple terms, the solution is: close the border, deport the illegals, and end welfare. If you remove the underground labor force & remove the public handout, then those that have been dependent on government funds would have incentive and opportunity to join the workforce.

[Dave2]

On welfare: Be specific.

Can't speak for TAM, but I'd just let the states handle it (and my advice to the states would be to let the local governments handle it).

[VMI77]

For the Repubs it may be about the money, but for the Dems it's about political power, destroying the American culture in order to undermine the Republic, adding millions of government dependents, and balkanization (the old divide and conquer). Apparently the Repubs care more about money than the country. It's an assault on American culture and traditions intended to destroy the old Republic and inaugurate the collectivist utopia.

[mamabearCali]

the 2014 elections that is what this is all about. They got their butts handed to them on gun control.....now they want something to hang their hats on. This bill is nonsense. It is utterly stupid. I am actually against a border fence...simply because what can be built to keep mexicans out could be used to keep us in (the gov't goes faccist and we all are running for our lives for hidie holes anywhere and everywhere). But we have enough imigration laws.....we don't need a ton more. We need to fix the ones we have because the process for legal immigration is insane.

[VMI77]

the 2014 elections that is what this is all about. They got their butts handed to them on gun control.....now they want something to hang their hats on. This bill is nonsense. It is utterly stupid. I am actually against a border fence...simply because what can be built to keep mexicans out could be used to keep us in (the gov't goes faccist and we all are running for our lives for hidie holes anywhere and everywhere). But we have enough imigration laws.....we don't need a ton more. We need to fix the ones we have because the process for legal immigration is insane.

If we're not criminals they don't need a fence to keep us in. There is no where to run. If we get to the point where they're using a fence to keep us in, they'll simply track us down and kill us if we manage to escape, wherever we go. They don't even have to kill us....just cancel our credit cards, freeze our bank accounts, and prohibit cash transactions. We're fast approaching the point where the government will have the power to prevent us from being employed and/or using our accumulated wealth to sustain ourselves, and prevent us traveling anywhere but on foot.

[mamabearCali]

the 2014 elections that is what this is all about. They got their butts handed to them on gun control.....now they want something to hang their hats on. This bill is nonsense. It is utterly stupid. I am actually against a border fence...simply because what can be built to keep mexicans out could be used to keep us in (the gov't goes faccist and we all are running for our lives for hidie holes anywhere and everywhere). But we have enough imigration laws.....we don't need a ton more. We need to fix the ones we have because the process for legal immigration is insane.

If we're not criminals they don't need a fence to keep us in. There is no where to run. If we get to the point where they're using a fence to keep us in, they'll simply track us down and kill us if we manage to escape, wherever we go. They don't even have to kill us....just cancel our credit cards, freeze our bank accounts, and prohibit cash transactions. We're fast approaching the point where the government will have the power to prevent us from being employed and/or using our accumulated wealth to sustain ourselves, and prevent us traveling anywhere but on foot.

Maybe....but if I am being chased another wall is another wall. This country is going nuts......my trust if anyone in political office is nearing 0.