Over-policing plus justified fear of impersonators

[rp_photo]

The women had every right to assume they were being approached by police impersonators with bad intent and acted accordingly. 911 calls go unanswered and victims are raped due to budget cuts, yet there is plenty of funding for 6 Barney-Fife wannabes.

Each time I read something like this I lose more respect for law enforcement and I'm sure I'm not alone, and IMHO a great budget cutting opportunity would be firing these 6 idiots and denying them full-salary pensions at age 50 or whatever they get these days:

http://www.timesdispatch.com/news/state ... f6878.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[JALLEN]

Any idea why it takes 6 agents to handle stopping two college girls?

The increasing militarization of police forces gives me lots of worries, all the tacticool units out there acting and equipped like testosterone-crazed Delta Force wannabees, the tragic consequences of their all too frequent mistakes, and the near total immunity therefor which leaves citizens remedy-less, and sometimes dead.

What ever happened to "One riot, one Ranger?"

[rp_photo]

Any idea why it takes 6 agents to handle stopping two college girls?

Under-trained cowards who couldn't get into first-tier agencies?

[rp_photo]

The increasing militarization of police forces gives me lots of worries, all the tacticool units out there acting and equipped like testosterone-crazed Delta Force wannabees

Society would be best served by trimming back redundant police agencies and increasing the number of "tacticool" citizens.

[Sidro]

What ever happened to "One riot, one Ranger?"
Sadly Jallen, the days of Ranger Manuel Trazazas "Lone Wolf" Gonzaullas are gone.

[EEllis]

It sounds like dropping the charges was the correct move but I think some of the criticism maybe a bit silly. These are ABC agents which are normally paid for out of taxes on booze so the financial issues seem overdone. Less agents would most likely mean less money available not more. I really don't buy the whole "impersonator" theme because, well, it would be a first that 6 guys dressed up as impersonators to jack 2 girls in a parking lot that I ever heard of. There is some talk about the whole militarization of police but we have no idea if they were in tac gear and if so that lowers the reasonability of thinking they may be impersonators not increases it. If on the other hand they were plain clothes so they could go into establishments that served alcohol without notice to check for violations the whole "militarization" issue isn't relevant here. Even if it were the case that the girls feared impersonators how would that be the agents fault? What would you want them to do different here, while still being able to do the rest of their job. Maybe the girls shouldn't of been arrested but it looks like all the charges were factually accurate. What actions that they took were so outrageous? They saw a underage girl heading out to a parking lot with what looked like it could've been a 12 pack of beer. They tried to stop the girl and she ran to her car So they should just say "Oh well" and turn around? They chased after her when she jumped in her car and she started up her car when they were yelling commands at her thru the window. Well certainly then they should've just said "too bad she started her car" and turned around. Instead, like most cops who are trying to stop someone who appears to be fleeing, they actually try and stop her from leaving , which she does, coming into contact with 2 agents as she pealed out of the lot. So in what world would the cops not chase her down? Is there some issue with PC for the original stop? Mind you it is small potatoes for an ABC agent to do a MIP but booze is their thing and it if it is important enough to pass a law then we shouldn't complain when the cops actually do their jobs. As to the issue of 6 officers. College town. If they were planning on checking any bars at all that night having 6 agents in a group doesn't seem crazy to me. Slo why should they be fired, lose their pensions, and be called insulting names?

[mamabearCali]

Charges should be dropped. I am local to this incident so I ma have a little more info. From what I have gleaned they were in plain clothes in a very dimly lit parking lot, the officers yelled freeze at the girls and pointed guns at them. They did not identify themselves in an clear manner as police until the chase was over. The girls were terrified and called the police themselves saying they were being attacked and chased by people.

Y'all aren't from this area so I will tell you the stories of the area. A few years back, just west of us in the mountains a man posed as police, pulled young women over and pulled them out of the cars in dark places and raped them. These facts are told to very high school girl in drivers ed and we are warned to never ever ever pull into an unlit dark place even if the person has a gumball machine on top and the lights are on. We are told to slowdown our flashers on and drive to a lit public area. So this is likely the frame of mind these young women were in.

As no one got hurt I don't think firing is necessary. But some consideration and training is. You don't approach two young girls in a parking lot like you do a drug raid.

[philip964]

College girls, I think I read (correct me if I am wrong) they had just left a school function about how to avoid rape.

This could have been much worse. The girls tried to escape in their car. The original charges were for "brushing the officers with their car". At least their boss is not discussing with them the killing of the driver and her passenger.

I'm heading to Charlottesville in a couple of weeks I'll find out the rest of the story.

[Keith B]

Way overboard for a potential of minors possessing a supposed12-pack of beer. Even if they are trying to get evidence to arrest the supplier, it was stupid to bring guns into play. I caught quite a few under age people with beer back years ago. If they were cooperative and not intoxicated, they usually walked with no beer and a good warning the first time.

[EEllis]

College girls, I think I read (correct me if I am wrong) they had just left a school function about how to avoid rape.

This could have been much worse. The girls tried to escape in their car. The original charges were for "brushing the officers with their car". At least their boss is not discussing with them the killing of the driver and her passenger.

I'm heading to Charlottesville in a couple of weeks I'll find out the rest of the story.

They, the three girls, were said to be leaving a grocery store after buying supplies for a sorority fundraiser. Talk about ending worse She could of ran over and killed an Agent or two and there would be no dropped charges then.

Wait I see what you are talking about. They were at an event earlier.

The woman was on edge after spending the night listening to stories from dozens of sexual assault survivors at an annual "Take Back the Night" vigil on Grounds, said Daly's defense attorney, Francis Lawrence.

[EEllis]

Just for the record it was a female officer who first approached the girl showing her badge and verbally identifying herself as police.

In a statement to The Huffington Post, Virginia Department of Alcoholic Beverage Control spokesman Kathleen Shaw said that the first agent who approached Daly "identified herself as a police officer and was displaying her badge" and that "other agents did not join the incident until the subject refused to cooperate."

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/06/2 ... 18340.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Now I'm not stating that I think one story is gospel and the other bunk but I really don't see how all the conversation can be so negative towards police. Sometimes I think members of the public need a bit of remedial training themselves.

[EEllis]

Way overboard for a potential of minors possessing a supposed12-pack of beer. Even if they are trying to get evidence to arrest the supplier, it was stupid to bring guns into play. I caught quite a few under age people with beer back years ago. If they were cooperative and not intoxicated, they usually walked with no beer and a good warning the first time.

You did get that according to the girl only one agent drew and that was after the girl locked herself in her car refusing to get out or roll down the window? Hard to say that it's crazy to draw a gun when she then hit two officers with her car. Personally if I knew the girls I would just be thanking god that no one was hurt because think about what could of happened.

[sodchemist]

It sounds like dropping the charges was the correct move but I think some of the criticism maybe a bit silly. These are ABC agents which are normally paid for out of taxes on booze so the financial issues seem overdone. Less agents would most likely mean less money available not more. I really don't buy the whole "impersonator" theme because, well, it would be a first that 6 guys dressed up as impersonators to jack 2 girls in a parking lot that I ever heard of. There is some talk about the whole militarization of police but we have no idea if they were in tac gear and if so that lowers the reasonability of thinking they may be impersonators not increases it. If on the other hand they were plain clothes so they could go into establishments that served alcohol without notice to check for violations the whole "militarization" issue isn't relevant here. Even if it were the case that the girls feared impersonators how would that be the agents fault? What would you want them to do different here, while still being able to do the rest of their job. Maybe the girls shouldn't of been arrested but it looks like all the charges were factually accurate. What actions that they took were so outrageous? They saw a underage girl heading out to a parking lot with what looked like it could've been a 12 pack of beer. They tried to stop the girl and she ran to her car So they should just say "Oh well" and turn around? They chased after her when she jumped in her car and she started up her car when they were yelling commands at her thru the window. Well certainly then they should've just said "too bad she started her car" and turned around. Instead, like most cops who are trying to stop someone who appears to be fleeing, they actually try and stop her from leaving , which she does, coming into contact with 2 agents as she pealed out of the lot. So in what world would the cops not chase her down? Is there some issue with PC for the original stop? Mind you it is small potatoes for an ABC agent to do a MIP but booze is their thing and it if it is important enough to pass a law then we shouldn't complain when the cops actually do their jobs. As to the issue of 6 officers. College town. If they were planning on checking any bars at all that night having 6 agents in a group doesn't seem crazy to me. Slo why should they be fired, lose their pensions, and be called insulting names?

i don't think think the financial issue is "overdone". Do we really want to say that taxes on booze must be spent on booze related issues? Are my property taxes spent on maintaining my property, or on other stuff, like education? And what about my income tax? How is that spent on income related stuff. Oh that's right, it is given away to non-working people as income! Maybe I should eat my words! Nevertheless, an alcohol tax should be an alcohol tax, not a fee to fund this type of nonsense. If one of these girls had a concealed weapon and tried to use it then someone could have gotten hurt. These officers need to be immediately fired. If someone did this to my daughter I would devote the rest of my life to picketing them, suing them, and doing everything i could within the law to make sure it never happened again, and that they experienced all things punitive. parents work too hard, spend too much money to raise and protect their kids to have it all come close to being undone by stupid people. stupid people are everywhere and we need to not give them authority over us or any of our money.

[Dave2]

Perhaps the agency in question should drop the charges, fix her car, thank God nobody got killed, and figure out what their procedure needs to be for dealing with people who don't know that undercover cops are cops. (Seems like "letting" someone call 911 to confirm is a fine solution, but maybe that's just me...)

[RottenApple]

I've always kinda wondered exactly how we are supposed to know that undercover officers really are cops. Anybody can yell, "Stop! Police!" And it's not like its difficult to get badges that look like LEO badges. Especially from a distance. I think the girl's reactions were extremely reasonable.

I could see something like this going very, very badly for a CHL holder and the officer(s) involved.