Qualification w/40 rounds?

[sjfcontrol]

The CHL proficiency exam is a 50-round course of fire. That, however, does NOT mean each and every student will fire all 50 rounds. There can be any number of reasons (as I implied above) why a student may not get off all 50 rounds. Running out of time, and firearm malfunction are two.

The purpose of the proficiency test is twofold...

1) For the student to demonstrate that he is knowledgable about the operation of the firearm, and is capable of handling it safely.
2) For the student to demonstrate that he can score a minimum of 175 out of a total of 250 points.

Even at the Austin DPS range, the person doing the scoring (the person next to you) is supposed to ask the shooter if he had any "holdbacks". Those are rounds that for whatever reason, were not fired. Those rounds are counted as "misses". DPS does NOT fail a prospective instructor because he did not fire all 50 rounds.

I would suggest that any instructor who failed a student that successfully demonstrated the two goals above, but did not fire all 50 rounds, would be courting issues with DPS when the student contacts them to complain about the instructor.

As an example, I was RSO for another instructor's class. One of the students decided he would use a number of his rounds to "draw a smiley face" on the head of his target. (Now before somebody claims that "Head shots are automatic disqualifiers", that is CHL urban legend.) Anyway, I considered how I would have handled this situation. The best resolution that I could come up with would be to go ahead and pass the student (assuming he got a passing score on both written and proficiency test), and send a letter to DPS explaining that although the student did get passing scores, he failed to follow instructions, and explain the situation -- thus letting DPS handle the issue as they see fit.

This was one of the scoring targets we had in class. The head shots received 3 points there were 8 of them, there were only 40 other shots accounted for - 5 pointer total of 224. shooter failed.

224 is a passing grade if you're talking about CHL students. A fail for instructors, however (by one point).

[twomillenium]

Must have been Instructors class since most don't teach scoring in CHL class. It was my bad I should have mentioned I had attended the June 2013 Instructors class.

[switch]

2 complete misses? Missed the target? Or 2 hold backs?

I've heard some scorers 'threaten' shooters when the center was shot out and they could not count the holes but the DPS range officers said you don't need to count the hits, only need to count the misses. If the x-ring, 10 ring is shot out, it's obvious (s)he can shoot.

Sounds to me like someone was being a jerk. Trying to punish someone for head shots.

I'd refuse to sign that score sheet. Make the DPS range officer count it for/with me.

Still, he'd have 2 more chance to qualify. :) Probably would NOT have a good attitude for the rest of the week.

[twomillenium]

If the middle is shot out then the count would go to the shooter, that has not changed. Therefore the middle must not have been shot out if only 40 shots could be counted.

[switch]

If there were 40 holes inside the 8-ring and 8 in the head, I'd assume that 2 bullets went through an existing hole (or were so close it still looked like one hole). Sometimes, it's hard to tell if a hole was one bullet or 1+.

[kg5ie]

If the middle is shot out then the count would go to the shooter, that has not changed. Therefore the middle must not have been shot out if only 40 shots could be counted.

This reminds me of the discussion I had with my "scorer" at the DPS range in April. All 50 of my rounds, shooting SA were in the "8" ring, but he could not account for 50 holes. There was a dimple in the plastic target holder on the right side. It was actually an injection mold dimple, but he proclaimed it to be a bullet hole and a "miss". When I peeled the plastic back and showed him there was no hole in the target behind the plastic his statement was: "Well, it just didn't go through!" I just smiled and walked away. I was shooting a Glock 31 in .357 sig with 140 grain FMJ.

[switch]

What a jerk.

Glad you paid attention in the How to Avoid Conflict class. :)

[GrannyGlock]

I was told in the instructor class of 2007 by Riggs, all 50 shots are required. Do not stop after 40. When I had a misfire during that instructor qualifying jam, I was given an opportunity to make up the shot by the RSO on the shoot all 5 at once command (I was told to shoot 6). I think they mean it. Our responsibility is to follow the law and score accordingly.

As to the head shot dilemma, a good friend had made 10 beautiful head shots. I took him aside and explained that this was as much about following directions as it was about shooting and he would fail if he continued. He finished the test by shooting out the top "8" of the 8 ring.

[switch]

I think he was wrong to allow you to shoot 6 rounds and 'clean up'. :) The course of fire specifically says 5 rounds. LOL I know, they frequently 'penalize' you when you don't get off 20 rounds at 3 or 7 yards by requiring to to shoot them at 15. Personally, I don't. If you miscount or have a misfire or jam and can't clear it, you loose 5 points for every round NOT fired.

OTOH, they probably feel like it is safer for you to be out of ammo than to wander around the range w/a live round.

Personally, I think you are being too strict. I tell students that head shots are allowed, the are just only worth 3 points. I tell them to shoot the 'X' because cardboard targets cost $1 but the overlays are only $.10 and I don't want to tape up all the holes in the head. It usually gets a small laugh.

If someone failed me for head shots, I'd complain to DPS. If they don't want you to make head shots, they can easily make it a no-shoot.

The reason we were told that DPS changed to the B-27 target from the old TX-PT was they had troopers going for head shots - and missing. (A couple of rounds went through the cowboys hat but still missed the head. ) Personally? I think the new range officer just wanted to put his 'stamp' on the CHL program.

The B-27 target is more popular w/other agencies. AFAIK, DPS/CHL were the only ones that ever used the TX-PT target.

[GrannyGlock]

Had this gentleman shoot all 50 perfect head shots, he would have scored 150, not a passing score, I certainly counted the shots as 3 pointers.

[switch]

he could have qualified the 2nd or third time. :)