Catch someone breaking into car

[knotquiteawake]

In a nut shell it all boils down to what you think a human life is worth. Because that is what they are going to ask you when you end up in court. Is a human life worth the price to replace a radar detector? Or is it worth a lot more. Cause I bet when you end up in Civil court they are going to be suing you for a lot more than the price of a radar detector.

Now before I get jumped on, I do believe in protecting ones life and property. But if somebody you approached is running away, no reason to waste the bullet. You are no longer in immendant harms way.

Just my 2 cents. Take them for what they are worth. 2 cents...

Not worth the headache. If its my house, my family, or even my pets that are in danger then the bad guy is going to have a really bad day.

[knotquiteawake]

I don't know what I would do. I know what I wanted to do after it happened to my wife: " onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; (not embedded for a reason)

In our case, we managed to get almost everything back. IANAL and I don't know how insurance really plays in to this and the law. IMO, I really don't think it matters.

Another thought, you don't know if my insurance would even cover the item(s) or discuss the deductible.

So, let's say that I have a radar detector in my car, which I do. It's a $350 model, or was when I bought it, and it is in the perps hands. My insurance deductible is $500. Insurance is not going to pay to get it back right? But if my detector is $525, then the law applies to me because I would get $25 back for it? Again, IMO, I don't think insurance is a matter of discussion. Got to love the "what if" questions.

There has been more than one news report of the person who shot a BG, even in the back while running away, and was not arrested or charged because they were protecting property.

I sure wish one of the attorneys of the group would make up a fake username and answer all these lawyer questions for us.

Did you camera footage help in the case against the thieves? I've got a similar system, that would put about about the same if not slightly lower quality images.

[VMI77]

I wouldn't shoot the perp even if justified. Material things aren't worth the legal headache.

Well now, how about if those material things are either a) your livelihood, like the tools with which you make your living and feed your family, or b) rare and extremely difficult to replace like your left-handed Gibson Flying V?

Insurance.

Insurance. Why not just chuck the guy the keys to your house, too?

This notion that it is just "property" is the rational that the left uses to delegitimize self-defense and why in the UK defending yourself in your own home is illegal. It's a pernicious notion that starts from the practical and leads to the absurd. In a sense, the property itself is largely irrelevant --it's the principle of being deprived of property by force and the cost of such insecurity to individuals and society that is the real issue. Burglary, robbery, and most theft are acts of force that are only stopped or prevented by an act of counter force. If we follow the notion that a human life is worth more than property to its logical conclusion then we end up with a country like the UK where burglars can rob you while you're home and all you can do is watch and hope they'll be content with just taking your property. There is a salubrious effect on society when miscreants hesitate to commit a crime because they fear they may be shot. When the law embodies the concept that a miscreant's life is superior to the social contract represented by the ownership of private property, it creates an environment where criminals are emboldened, increases crime, and actually elevates the rights of criminals over the rights of citizens. If the law doesn't let you use necessary force to prevent someone from stealing your property, then the law essentially grants a thief a greater right to your property than it grants you. I think the law in Texas strikes a pretty good balance, but that isn't true in some other states.

Obviously there are degrees and practical considerations and each case requires the use of good judgement --so, would I shoot someone over a $150 radar detector? No, but if I walk out to my car and someone is inside it stealing something I'm not going to just run away either. However, the law is what it is, so I will act in accordance with the law, and I will weigh the potential consequences of whatever action I contemplate. I will try to avoid shooting someone if at all possible but without issuing free passes to thieves. In the case of a car burglary it would also depend on where the car is parked and when it's happening. In the Walmart parking lot I would tend to back off and just call the police; in front of my home, at night, on my private property out in the country where anyone inside my car had to come through my gate and venture 100 yards down my driveway, I will consider the threat to my family to be different, and I will respond appropriately to that threat.

[VMI77]

I wouldn't shoot the perp even if justified. Material things aren't worth the legal headache.

Well now, how about if those material things are either a) your livelihood, like the tools with which you make your living and feed your family, or b) rare and extremely difficult to replace like your left-handed Gibson Flying V?

Insurance.

In my case, insurance wouldn't cover the weeks of effort it would take to recover the loss and the resultant effect on my business if they steal my "tools". I would defend my property.

Okay, good luck to you if you ever encounter this scenario.

Just curious, would you also just rely on insurance if they were burglarizing your house? Would you go out the back door and let them take whatever they wanted if they left before the police arrived? It's a serious question. I might depending on the circumstances. I hope I never know the answer. Some people say they wouldn't use their weapon to defend property under any circumstances. I believe I would in some circumstances and accept the legal hassle that goes with it. I don't know that either position is "right".

I don't think that situation has much to do with property but with tactics. To me, going out the backdoor sounds like not such a good idea. How do you know there isn't an accomplice just outside the backdoor? I would attempt to take the best tactical position, without regard to whatever they're stealing. So, for example, assuming no children in the house, and my wife and I in our bedroom hear someone who has broken in trampling about the rest of the house, I would barricade us in the bedroom, call the police, and if the BG's tried to enter my bedroom, warn them that I am armed and that I will defend myself with deadly force.

[VMI77]

I wouldn't shoot the perp even if justified. Material things aren't worth the legal headache.

Well now, how about if those material things are either a) your livelihood, like the tools with which you make your living and feed your family, or b) rare and extremely difficult to replace like your left-handed Gibson Flying V?

Insurance.

Insurance. Why not just chuck the guy the keys to your house, too?

Because we are not discussing a house burglary.. it was a discussion on a car being broken into, an unoccupied car.. a car with relatively cheap items that can easily be replaced.. But even if you throw in the red herring of a "left-handed Gibson Flying V".. It's still just a non essential item and coved by my insurance.. Replaceable in money at least, with no more than a phone call.

Really, a $150 radar detector would be covered by your insurance? You must have really expensive insurance and no deductible, or the best and most generous insurance company I've ever heard of.

[RX8er]

Did you camera footage help in the case against the thieves? I've got a similar system, that would put about about the same if not slightly lower quality images.

It did not help catch them but was used in the prosecution of two of them. They were caught by Rohm PD after a neighborhood watch called for suspicious activity. They called my wife because they recovered her backpack (read that as purse) with DL and all her info.

[E.Marquez]

Really, a $150 radar detector would be covered by your insurance? You must have really expensive insurance and no deductible, or the best and most generous insurance company I've ever heard of.

Yes really, no not that expensive. And yes I like my USAA coverage.
Oh and I don’t buy cheap radar detectors so it's more like $400 https://store.valentine1.com/store/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
As well as the scenario was more than a $150 item taken with no other covered event.. It was hundreds if not thousands of $$ damage to the car itself caused during the break in, which would be covered as well.

[OldGrumpy]

So bottom line is there is no one answer. The answer lies in you, your personality, background, etc.
1. You could possibly legally shoot someone in the scenario presented by OP. Some would view that as correct answer because you are standing up for your property rights and it is worth the hassle of possibly going before grand jury, lawsuit, etc.
2. Others would call police and try to monitor from a safe distance. They would only present arms if faced by a direct challenge from the BG. They view CHL as only to be used to protect life. They also evaluate risk versus reward of the situation.
3. Others would possibly retreat back inside shopping center and then make the call.
Is any answer wrong. Absolutely not - that is why God created each of us a little bit different from the others.

[VMI77]

Really, a $150 radar detector would be covered by your insurance? You must have really expensive insurance and no deductible, or the best and most generous insurance company I've ever heard of.

Yes really, no not that expensive. And yes I like my USAA coverage.
Oh and I don’t buy cheap radar detectors so it's more like $400 https://store.valentine1.com/store/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
As well as the scenario was more than a $150 item taken with no other covered event.. It was hundreds if not thousands of $$ damage to the car itself caused during the break in, which would be covered as well.

I've got USAA and my coverage isn't that good. Granted, I chose a higher deductible, but back when it was lower and someone broke a window out to get in my car, I got zero dollars from USAA. I don't use a radar detector now though, like I did in my younger days. I just try to stay within the limits.

[VMI77]

So bottom line is there is no one answer. The answer lies in you, your personality, background, etc.
2. Others would call police and try to monitor from a safe distance. They would only present arms if faced by a direct challenge from the BG. They view CHL as only to be used to protect life. They also evaluate risk versus reward of the situation.
t:

I don't think this is either/or. You could believe in protecting your property within the law and only present arms if faced by a direct challenge from the BG. For instance, you could stand back, yell out, "hey, that's my car and I just called the police," and only present arms if he subsequently attacks you instead of running off. That's more like what I might do, depending on the particular situation. I wouldn't pull out my gun and approach the guy at the vehicle. If he runs off, fine, I'm not pulling a gun or shooting him; but if he comes after me threatening my life, then I will defend myself.

[bdickens]

I wouldn't shoot the perp even if justified. Material things aren't worth the legal headache.

Well now, how about if those material things are either a) your livelihood, like the tools with which you make your living and feed your family, or b) rare and extremely difficult to replace like your left-handed Gibson Flying V?

Insurance.

Insurance. Why not just chuck the guy the keys to your house, too?

Because we are not discussing a house burglary.. it was a discussion on a car being broken into, an unoccupied car.. a car with relatively cheap items that can easily be replaced.. But even if you throw in the red herring of a "left-handed Gibson Flying V".. It's still just a non essential item and coved by my insurance.. Replaceable in money at least, with no more than a phone call.

Sorry, man, but you're thinking like an anti-gun liberal.

First off, burglary is burglary. House, car, office, wherever. It is still unlawful entry coupled with theft.

Second, you must have slept through your logic class because a "red herring" is a spurious argument used in an attempt to draw attention away from the issue at hand.

The whole "it isn't worth it so shoot someone over mere property" mentality is what is the red herring. Some things are not just "mere material goods." Some things have value beyond the cost of them.

The tools, for example. Those represent someone's livelihood, they represent shoes on the children's feet, food in their mouths and a roof over their heads. Yeah, insurance might replace them. But when? Tonight? Someone needs to go to work with them tomorrow so he can provide those shoes, that food and that roof. Is insurance going to pay for all that missed time - working time that will be gone forever, never to be recovered - while they drag their butts through the process of reimbursing you? I doubt it.

It's real easy for softies who spend their days imprisoned in an air-conditioned cubicle never risking dirt under their fingernails to pontificate about how "insurance" will replace a working man's tools. But let me tell you something, it's not quite the same as when your little dollar-store hammer goes missing and you can't hang Jenny's soccer picture on the wall this evening. Without those tools, no work gets done. No work gets done, no pay for workman. You, however, can still go push papers around for a paycheck after Tyrell breaks into your Tahoe and rips off your Boy George CDs.

I have tens of thousands of dollars worth of tools that I make my living with. Yeah, you read that right: tens of thousands of dollars. worth of tools. And without them, I am sunk. Would I shoot someone I caught trying to load up my tool boxes? You betcha.


As far as the left-handed Gibson Flying V being "non-essential," you obviously don't have one.

But seriously, like I pointed out before, some things have value beyond their cost. Yeah, it only cost me about $1000, but that isn't the point. Go try to find another one. I did when mine got stolen - and I couldn't. Fortunately, the multi-time looser who filched it and my Schecter 7-string was as stupid as most lowlifes trying to score their next crack hit and took it that same day to a nearby pawn shop and the police, who were already familiar with the scumbag, recovered it within a week.

Sorry, but I don't want the insurance settlement, I want the guitar. And yeah, I'd have shot that bozo if I'd have caught him in the act and he did anything but very gently set my things down and patiently wait with me for the police to arrive.


But hey, it's your life. You draw your line wherever you want. I'll draw mine where I want.

[Dirthawking]

Just to play devils advocate, even though I understand what you are saying about the tools, as I make a living off of mine too. But, you will also not be able to provide while you are locked up. It still goes back to my original point. What is the dollar amount you put on a human life? Where is the limit? How much are you willing to spend?

It does boil down to confront and flee vs. confront and attack.

[bdickens]

Someone already quoted the applicable sections of the law on the first page of this thread.

English is not really all that difficult.

Plus, this is Texas. Remember Joe Horn? He shot two thugs burglarizing his neighbor, not him, in broad daylight, told the 911 dispatcher he was gonna shoot them, and the Harris County DA still recommended that the Grand Jury no-bill him (which they did).

I'm not really all that worried.

[Texas_Blaze]

I have already determined that I will only draw if my life or my family is in danger. If I draw, the bullets will fly, so I will be sure that deadly force is needed to protect my/family's life. To me, even if law allows, and even if no legal headaches would follow, even if I would not so much as be questioned, I would never shoot at someone over stuff. Never. The perp's life is more valuable than my stuff. the perp is made in the image of God. My stuff ain't.

If perp enters my home and I am there. Perp will be finished off, no questions asked. My home is a safe place, an intruder is threatening my life if he enters my home.

[bizarrenormality]

What is the dollar amount you put on a human life?

There's a simple way for crooks not to get shot while stealing. Do it in New York instead of Texas.