Effective Notice question

[JKTex]

Directly from 30.06

(3) "Written communication" means:
(A) a card or other document on which is written
language identical to the following: "Pursuant to Section 30.06,
Penal Code (trespass by holder of license to carry a concealed
handgun), a person licensed under Subchapter H, Chapter 411,
Government Code (concealed handgun law), may not enter this
property with a concealed handgun"

As far as notice, if what's on the ticket complies with above, whether you choose to read it or not (if you're asking, you read it, or are aware it's there ) you were given effective notice.

If it's not worded properly, whether that's by design or not, you can guess what they intent is, but I don't think the law allows for guessing.

[Hawk99]

My thoughts are that, if they put up a sign or notify by card and the wording is wrong, they intend to keep out unlicensed carry and are ok with licensed carry. A local hospital had a 29ee sign up for the longest. Then I went and they had new signs up in English and Spanish, but did not mention any law at all. These probably went through their legal staff, so i will assume they intend to keep out bad guys and they want us there. So, I will continue to carry as I have always done. These unlawful signs are probably a hedge against the liability of a shooting on site.

Just my uneducated opinion.

Frank, IANAL

[rotor]

The issue is not "if you wish to read it" but can you read it? If the type is so small ( and most movie tickets are quite small aren't they?) then can you read it? If you use the argument that any written notice is ok then if they gave you a copy of CHL-16 which has the exact verbage would that be notice? Obviously if the give you a readable card with the correct no entry verbage that is readable you can not carry. I still argue that the type can be so small that the whole thing may need a magnifying glass and I don't believe would constitute what a "reasonable" person would consider written notice. The politicians have defined the 30-06 sign quite well. If the letters are 1/2' then no notice. They have not defined the written notice as well and certainly a sharp attorney would be the one to answer this question. You don't need to be able to read super fine print to be medically qualified for a CHL.

[jmra]

My thoughts are that, if they put up a sign or notify by card and the wording is wrong, they intend to keep out unlicensed carry and are ok with licensed carry. A local hospital had a 29ee sign up for the longest. Then I went and they had new signs up in English and Spanish, but did not mention any law at all. These probably went through their legal staff, so i will assume they intend to keep out bad guys and they want us there. So, I will continue to carry as I have always done. These unlawful signs are probably a hedge against the liability of a shooting on site.

Just my uneducated opinion.

Frank, IANAL

sounds to me like putting (what turned out to be incorrect) verbiage on the back of the movie ticket in small print is more of a liability firewall than anything else.

[jmra]

The issue is not "if you wish to read it" but can you read it? If the type is so small ( and most movie tickets are quite small aren't they?) then can you read it? If you use the argument that any written notice is ok then if they gave you a copy of CHL-16 which has the exact verbage would that be notice? Obviously if the give you a readable card with the correct no entry verbage that is readable you can not carry. I still argue that the type can be so small that the whole thing may need a magnifying glass and I don't believe would constitute what a "reasonable" person would consider written notice. The politicians have defined the 30-06 sign quite well. If the letters are 1/2' then no notice. They have not defined the written notice as well and certainly a sharp attorney would be the one to answer this question. You don't need to be able to read super fine print to be medically qualified for a CHL.

If the letters on the sign are 1/2' (six inches) then it would fall into the legal requirements for letter size. Would be a huge sign though.
IMHO, all of this (even a 30.06 sign with 1/2" letters) will not be settled until there is a test case. We all know courts can be very unpredictable.
If it were me:
1. Correct wording on sign with 3/4" letters, I go somewhere else.
2. If for some reason I decided to read the tiny writing on the ticket (may not be able to help myself now) and it has the correct wording, I go somewhere else.

[rotor]

"Pursuant to Section 30.06,
Penal Code (trespass by holder of license to carry a concealed
handgun), a person licensed under Subchapter H, Chapter 411,
Government Code (concealed handgun law), may not enter this
property with a concealed handgun"

How's this? Technically could be even smaller. I realize this is becomming silly but really, who looks at a ticket stub at the movies.

[rotor]

jmra, you are correct and I meant 1/2 inch, not 6 inches. " and ' are on the same key. Old eyes.

[jmra]

"Pursuant to Section 30.06,
Penal Code (trespass by holder of license to carry a concealed
handgun), a person licensed under Subchapter H, Chapter 411,
Government Code (concealed handgun law), may not enter this
property with a concealed handgun"

How's this? Technically could be even smaller. I realize this is becomming silly but really, who looks at a ticket stub at the movies.

Actually, on my iPad with my eyes 24" away, I can read that without stretching the screen. Would not have been able to do the same on my iPhone.
Like I said earlier, one day (perhaps) this stuff will be settled in the courts. Until then, "every man has to work out his own salvation".

[jmra]

jmra, you are correct and I meant 1/2 inch, not 6 inches. " and ' are on the same key. Old eyes.

I know, I was just ribbing you a little.

[TCR]

Re. Wortham Center CHL carry:
The quick answer (references below) is that a CHL holder can carry their firearm in the group of theaters under administration of Houston First Theaters, which includes the entire Houston Theater District.
I hope that this helps to address the CHL carry conundrum.

If you go to the site below and do a search "rules and regulations"
http://houstonfirsttheaters.com/WorthamCenter/FAQ.aspx" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

It will take you to this site. I copied their position re. the carry of concealed handguns:
http://www.houstonfirsttheaters.com/Hou ... tions.aspx" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

CONCEALED HANDGUNS
(1) Possession of Firearms is forbidden in the Facility with the exception of the following: (i) licensed peace
officers and licensed honorably retired peace officers and (ii) exhibitors and patrons during duly licensed gun
shows and (iii) individuals licensed by the State of Texas to carry concealed handguns. Props that resemble
Firearms may be used on stage as part of a production if integral to the performance, but under no circumstances
may they be used with live ammunition.

(2) The term “Firearm” includes any device designed, made, or adapted to expel a projectile through a barrel or
cylinder by using the energy generated by an explosion or burning substance or pressurized air or gas or any
device readily convertible to that use.

[Dori]

My thoughts are that, if they put up a sign or notify by card and the wording is wrong, they intend to keep out unlicensed carry and are ok with licensed carry.

Thanks a lot.

http://texaschlforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=94&t=73533" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[sjfcontrol]

My thoughts are that, if they put up a sign or notify by card and the wording is wrong, they intend to keep out unlicensed carry and are ok with licensed carry.

Thanks a lot.

http://texaschlforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=94&t=73533" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

It's going to be impossible to interact in this forum without saying something that can be twisted by the antis to fit their warped purposes. It happened to me, it will happen to others. To try to avoid that would defeat the purpose of this forum. We might as well all hide under our collective beds.

[EEllis]

It's going to be impossible to interact in this forum without saying something that can be twisted by the antis to fit their warped purposes. It happened to me, it will happen to others. To try to avoid that would defeat the purpose of this forum. We might as well all hide under our collective beds.

While it may be impossible one could still try and give as little ammo as possible. Your boots might get muddy when you slop the pigs but that doesn't give you an automatic pass when you wallow in the mud with them.

[EEllis]

Re. Wortham Center CHL carry:

I don't think there was ever a question on this thread that the Wortham is a city owned facility and can't legally post a 30.06. The argument is if the Alley theater is private and able to post 30.06 and if a notice on their ticket with 30.06 language is large enough to qualify as notice.

[RPBrown]

That's a good one but I'm not sure if that would be effective notice. Do they make you sign the back of the ticket? How do they know someone has read the ticket? Is it on the whole ticket or the half that you get back?

I can't tell you if I've ever read a movie theater ticket.

I get the ticket, hold them folded in between my fingers with a Coke and Popcorn in the other hand. Walk up to the ticket kid, takes it, and then the other half it goes in to shirt pocket or opposite pocket that has contraband candy from Neighbor Market.

I am late to the party here. I didn't see this last year so here is my .02

The law doesn't say you have read the effective notice but it does say you have "received effective notice" therefore, IMHO and IANAL, once you receive the ticket, and it is properly written, then you have received notice. Unless you want to be the test case here, and you may beat the rap but could very well take the ride and at what expense would it be to beat it in court?

(2) received notice that:
(A) entry on the property by a license holder with a concealed handgun was
forbidden; or
(B) remaining on the property with a concealed handgun was forbidden and
failed to depart.
(b) For purposes of this section, a person receives notice if the owner of the
property or someone with apparent authority to act for the owner provides notice
to the person by oral or written communication.
(c) In this section:
(1) “Entry” has the meaning assigned by Section 30.05(b).
(2) “License holder” has the meaning assigned by Section 46.035(f).
(3) “Written communication” means:
(A) a card or other document on which is written language identical
to the following: “Pursuant to Section 30.06, Penal Code (trespass by
holder of license to carry a concealed handgun), a person licensed under
Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code (concealed handgun
law), may not enter this property with a concealed handgun”; or