Summer Adventures at Fair Park

[BDTR]

Anybody know if the Summer Adventures at Fair Park will be legally 30.06 or prohibited carry due to "amusement park" status? I'm not sure if it's open long enough in the year to be legally classified as an amusement park. I've been all over their website and can't find any mention of weapons or CHL. Any info would be great, thanks.

[JJVP]

Anybody know if the Summer Adventures at Fair Park will be legally 30.06 or prohibited carry due to "amusement park" status? I'm not sure if it's open long enough in the year to be legally classified as an amusement park. I've been all over their website and can't find any mention of weapons or CHL. Any info would be great, thanks.

Not sure what you mean by "amusement park status". There 's not such thing. They can only prohibit if it is 30.06 posted, and only if they are privately owned.

[Keith B]

Well, there is amusement park status. If the park meets the guidelines spelled out in 46.035(f)(1)

(f) In this section:
(1) "Amusement park" means a permanent indoor or outdoor facility or park where amusement rides are available for use by the public that is located in a county with a population of more than one million, encompasses at least 75 acres in surface area, is enclosed with access only through controlled entries, is open for operation more than 120 days in each calendar year, and has security guards on the premises at all times. The term does not include any public or private driveway, street, sidewalk or walkway, parking lot, parking garage, or other parking area.

My thought is they may qualify as an amusement park under these guidelines if they are open more than 120 days, but since the park is owned by the city, then I don't think they can validly enforce a 30.06 sign.

[TxRVer]

The State Fair can't prohibit concealed carry, so I doubt any event at Fair Park can prohibit carry.

[Keith B]

The State Fair can't prohibit concealed carry, so I doubt any event at Fair Park can prohibit carry.

The State Fair in itself doesn't meet the guidelines as an Amusment Park because it is not open at least 120 days a year. This new venture of theirs may put them in that status if they are open May - August or even September when the State Fair opens.

I think they out we will have is the fact it is city owned and they can't post a valid 30.06 even if they do qualify as an Amusment Park now.

[JJVP]

Well, there is amusement park status. If the park meets the guidelines spelled out in 46.035(f)(1)

(f) In this section:
(1) "Amusement park" means a permanent indoor or outdoor facility or park where amusement rides are available for use by the public that is located in a county with a population of more than one million, encompasses at least 75 acres in surface area, is enclosed with access only through controlled entries, is open for operation more than 120 days in each calendar year, and has security guards on the premises at all times. The term does not include any public or private driveway, street, sidewalk or walkway, parking lot, parking garage, or other parking area.

My thought is they may qualify as an amusement park under these guidelines if they are open more than 120 days, but since the park is owned by the city, then I don't think they can validly enforce a 30.06 sign.

i) Subsections (b)(4), (b)(5), (b)(6), and (c) do not apply if the actor was not given effective notice under Section 30.06

[sjfcontrol]

The State Fair can't prohibit concealed carry, so I doubt any event at Fair Park can prohibit carry.

The State Fair in itself doesn't meet the guidelines as an Amusment Park because it is not open at least 120 days a year. This new venture of theirs may put them in that status if they are open May - August or even September when the State Fair opens.

I think they out we will have is the fact it is city owned and they can't post a valid 30.06 even if they do qualify as an Amusment Park now.

I WAS going to post that whether it's an amusement park or not, it's still city property, and therefore not postable.

However, I re-read 30.06(e)

(e) It is an exception to the application of this section
that the property on which the license holder carries a handgun is
owned or leased by a governmental entity and is not a premises or
other place on which the license holder is prohibited from carrying
the handgun under Section 46.03 or 46.035.

Well, an amusement park is indeed a prohibited location in 46.035 (section (i) not withstanding), and therefore it would seem the government exemption carry restriction does not apply.

As I'm reading this now, it would seem that carry in an amusement park on government property would be proscribed with notice being given via 30.06.

[BDTR]

I went to Summer Adventures on Saturday 5/18 and carried there. Security looked through my bag, and either the guy didn't see my handgun, or he saw it and figured I was ok to just walk on in. Later on in the day, we walked out of the fair to the Swan boats, walked back in, and a different guy saw my handgun when he poked through my bag again. He called Officer Grumpy over, who asked me what I was carrying, what caliber, and how many magazines. I personally don't think those kinds of questions are appropriate or any of his business, but I answered them to not make a fuss. First time any Fair Park security has asked me for anything aside from my CHL.

TL/DR: Yes, you can carry at Summer Adventures at Fair Park.

[RottenApple]

Wow. This is unnecessarily confusing.

1) Amusement park statutorily off limits.
2) Off limits for amusement parks doesn't apply if not posted 30.06
3) Fair Park is city owned property.
4) 30.06 on government property is unenforceable (except for a few other fairly narrowly defined areas)

It seems to me that they can't legally prohibit CHLs from carrying. IANAL and IDNSAAHIELN.

[Keith B]

I went to Summer Adventures on Saturday 5/18 and carried there. Security looked through my bag, and either the guy didn't see my handgun, or he saw it and figured I was ok to just walk on in. Later on in the day, we walked out of the fair to the Swan boats, walked back in, and a different guy saw my handgun when he poked through my bag again. He called Officer Grumpy over, who asked me what I was carrying, what caliber, and how many magazines. I personally don't think those kinds of questions are appropriate or any of his business, but I answered them to not make a fuss. First time any Fair Park security has asked me for anything aside from my CHL.

TL/DR: Yes, you can carry at Summer Adventures at Fair Park.

The officer just wanted to make sure you were adequately armed and would not be outgunned.

[Kythas]

Well, there is amusement park status. If the park meets the guidelines spelled out in 46.035(f)(1)

(f) In this section:
(1) "Amusement park" means a permanent indoor or outdoor facility or park where amusement rides are available for use by the public that is located in a county with a population of more than one million, encompasses at least 75 acres in surface area, is enclosed with access only through controlled entries, is open for operation more than 120 days in each calendar year, and has security guards on the premises at all times. The term does not include any public or private driveway, street, sidewalk or walkway, parking lot, parking garage, or other parking area.

My thought is they may qualify as an amusement park under these guidelines if they are open more than 120 days, but since the park is owned by the city, then I don't think they can validly enforce a 30.06 sign.

Keep reading:

Sec. 46.035. UNLAWFUL CARRYING OF HANDGUN BY LICENSE HOLDER. (a) A license holder commits an offense if the license holder carries a handgun on or about the license holder's person under the authority of Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, and intentionally fails to conceal the handgun.

(b) A license holder commits an offense if the license holder intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly carries a handgun under the authority of Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, regardless of whether the handgun is concealed, on or about the license holder's person:

(1) on the premises of a business that has a permit or license issued under Chapter 25, 28, 32, 69, or 74, Alcoholic Beverage Code, if the business derives 51 percent or more of its income from the sale or service of alcoholic beverages for on-premises consumption, as determined by the Texas Alcoholic Beverage Commission under Section 104.06, Alcoholic Beverage Code;

(2) on the premises where a high school, collegiate, or professional sporting event or interscholastic event is taking place, unless the license holder is a participant in the event and a handgun is used in the event;

(3) on the premises of a correctional facility;

(4) on the premises of a hospital licensed under Chapter 241, Health and Safety Code, or on the premises of a nursing home licensed under Chapter 242, Health and Safety Code, unless the license holder has written authorization of the hospital or nursing home administration, as appropriate;

(5) in an amusement park; or

(6) on the premises of a church, synagogue, or other established place of religious worship.

(c) A license holder commits an offense if the license holder intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly carries a handgun under the authority of Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, regardless of whether the handgun is concealed, at any meeting of a governmental entity.

(d) A license holder commits an offense if, while intoxicated, the license holder carries a handgun under the authority of Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, regardless of whether the handgun is concealed.

(e) A license holder who is licensed as a security officer under Chapter 1702, Occupations Code, and employed as a security officer commits an offense if, while in the course and scope of the security officer's employment, the security officer violates a provision of Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code.

(f) In this section:

(1) "Amusement park" means a permanent indoor or outdoor facility or park where amusement rides are available for use by the public that is located in a county with a population of more than one million, encompasses at least 75 acres in surface area, is enclosed with access only through controlled entries, is open for operation more than 120 days in each calendar year, and has security guards on the premises at all times. The term does not include any public or private driveway, street, sidewalk or walkway, parking lot, parking garage, or other parking area.

(2) "License holder" means a person licensed to carry a handgun under Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code.

(3) "Premises" means a building or a portion of a building. The term does not include any public or private driveway, street, sidewalk or walkway, parking lot, parking garage, or other parking area.

(g) An offense under Subsection (a), (b), (c), (d), or (e) is a Class A misdemeanor, unless the offense is committed under Subsection (b)(1) or (b)(3), in which event the offense is a felony of the third degree.

(h) It is a defense to prosecution under Subsection (a) that the actor, at the time of the commission of the offense, displayed the handgun under circumstances in which the actor would have been justified in the use of deadly force under Chapter 9.

(i) Subsections (b)(4), (b)(5), (b)(6), and (c) do not apply if the actor was not given effective notice under Section 30.06.

So, it's only off limits if they post 30.06. Since it's city owned property, they can't post 30.06.

[Keith B]

Well, there is amusement park status. If the park meets the guidelines spelled out in 46.035(f)(1)

(f) In this section:
(1) "Amusement park" means a permanent indoor or outdoor facility or park where amusement rides are available for use by the public that is located in a county with a population of more than one million, encompasses at least 75 acres in surface area, is enclosed with access only through controlled entries, is open for operation more than 120 days in each calendar year, and has security guards on the premises at all times. The term does not include any public or private driveway, street, sidewalk or walkway, parking lot, parking garage, or other parking area.

My thought is they may qualify as an amusement park under these guidelines if they are open more than 120 days, but since the park is owned by the city, then I don't think they can validly enforce a 30.06 sign.

Keep reading:

Sec. 46.035. UNLAWFUL CARRYING OF HANDGUN BY LICENSE HOLDER. (a) A license holder commits an offense if the license holder carries a handgun on or about the license holder's person under the authority of Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, and intentionally fails to conceal the handgun.

(b) A license holder commits an offense if the license holder intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly carries a handgun under the authority of Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, regardless of whether the handgun is concealed, on or about the license holder's person:

(1) on the premises of a business that has a permit or license issued under Chapter 25, 28, 32, 69, or 74, Alcoholic Beverage Code, if the business derives 51 percent or more of its income from the sale or service of alcoholic beverages for on-premises consumption, as determined by the Texas Alcoholic Beverage Commission under Section 104.06, Alcoholic Beverage Code;

(2) on the premises where a high school, collegiate, or professional sporting event or interscholastic event is taking place, unless the license holder is a participant in the event and a handgun is used in the event;

(3) on the premises of a correctional facility;

(4) on the premises of a hospital licensed under Chapter 241, Health and Safety Code, or on the premises of a nursing home licensed under Chapter 242, Health and Safety Code, unless the license holder has written authorization of the hospital or nursing home administration, as appropriate;

(5) in an amusement park; or

(6) on the premises of a church, synagogue, or other established place of religious worship.

(c) A license holder commits an offense if the license holder intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly carries a handgun under the authority of Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, regardless of whether the handgun is concealed, at any meeting of a governmental entity.

(d) A license holder commits an offense if, while intoxicated, the license holder carries a handgun under the authority of Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, regardless of whether the handgun is concealed.

(e) A license holder who is licensed as a security officer under Chapter 1702, Occupations Code, and employed as a security officer commits an offense if, while in the course and scope of the security officer's employment, the security officer violates a provision of Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code.

(f) In this section:

(1) "Amusement park" means a permanent indoor or outdoor facility or park where amusement rides are available for use by the public that is located in a county with a population of more than one million, encompasses at least 75 acres in surface area, is enclosed with access only through controlled entries, is open for operation more than 120 days in each calendar year, and has security guards on the premises at all times. The term does not include any public or private driveway, street, sidewalk or walkway, parking lot, parking garage, or other parking area.

(2) "License holder" means a person licensed to carry a handgun under Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code.

(3) "Premises" means a building or a portion of a building. The term does not include any public or private driveway, street, sidewalk or walkway, parking lot, parking garage, or other parking area.

(g) An offense under Subsection (a), (b), (c), (d), or (e) is a Class A misdemeanor, unless the offense is committed under Subsection (b)(1) or (b)(3), in which event the offense is a felony of the third degree.

(h) It is a defense to prosecution under Subsection (a) that the actor, at the time of the commission of the offense, displayed the handgun under circumstances in which the actor would have been justified in the use of deadly force under Chapter 9.

(i) Subsections (b)(4), (b)(5), (b)(6), and (c) do not apply if the actor was not given effective notice under Section 30.06.

So, it's only off limits if they post 30.06. Since it's city owned property, they can't post 30.06.

Yes, I am fully aware of this. I was debating the fact that the other member stated there was no such thing as amusement park status. You left that off of the quote.

In this case, as of now they do not qualify as an amusement park per the statutes. Once they open the park for longer periods, then they become an amusement park by the definition. However, as stated they won't be able to validly post since the property is owned by City of Dallas. No matter, they allow concealed carry at the fair, and apparently will allow it at the Summer Adventures. I would suggest just going to the security person and tell them you are a CHL and let them handle it as they do for the State Fair.

[sjfcontrol]

Keith -- as I posted above...

30.06 states...

(e) It is an exception to the application of this section
that the property on which the license holder carries a handgun is
owned or leased by a governmental entity and is not a premises or
other place on which the license holder is prohibited from carrying
the handgun under Section 46.03 or 46.035.

But, amusement parks ARE listed in 46.035 (section I not withstanding, they are still listed there), so the exception in 30.06(e) wouldn't apply to amusement parks even if on city property. Meaning they could post 30.06 and enforce it. The only reason the can't post Fair Park now is that it doesn't qualify as an amusement park.

[Keith B]

Keith -- as I posted above...

30.06 states...

(e) It is an exception to the application of this section
that the property on which the license holder carries a handgun is
owned or leased by a governmental entity and is not a premises or
other place on which the license holder is prohibited from carrying
the handgun under Section 46.03 or 46.035.

But, amusement parks ARE listed in 46.035 (section I not withstanding, they are still listed there), so the exception in 30.06(e) wouldn't apply to amusement parks even if on city property. Meaning they could post 30.06 and enforce it. The only reason the can't post Fair Park now is that it doesn't qualify as an amusement park.

I see the angle you are taking, but I disagree. They are only statutorily off limits if they post a 30.06, and can't because they are city owned. The other locations that don't require a 30.06 to be off limits would be prohibited. It comes down to what trumps what.

[sjfcontrol]

Keith -- as I posted above...

30.06 states...

(e) It is an exception to the application of this section
that the property on which the license holder carries a handgun is
owned or leased by a governmental entity and is not a premises or
other place on which the license holder is prohibited from carrying
the handgun under Section 46.03 or 46.035.

But, amusement parks ARE listed in 46.035 (section I not withstanding, they are still listed there), so the exception in 30.06(e) wouldn't apply to amusement parks even if on city property. Meaning they could post 30.06 and enforce it. The only reason the can't post Fair Park now is that it doesn't qualify as an amusement park.

I see the angle you are taking, but I disagree. They are only statutorily off limits if they post a 30.06, and can't because they are city owned. The other locations that don't require a 30.06 to be off limits would be prohibited. It comes down to what trumps what.

If it were a amusement park, and owned by the city, and they posted 30.06 -- seems to me then that since it is listed in 46.035 you would be prohibited from carrying there, and 30.06(e) (the government property exception) would not apply because you're prohibited by 46.035.

It is something of a chicken-egg problem. Or perhaps like a snake eating its own tail.