Skiprr wrote:
If something like SB 481 passes, all the good work for reciprocity achieved by the Governor and his Attorneys General will be undone. Almost every single reciprocity agreement will have to be rewritten, reissued and then, hopefully, the reduced commitment accepted by the governor of the reciprocal state.
I'll end this by saying, for this particular discussion, it would be informative for the readers to know who among the commentators make some/most of their income from teaching Texas CHL courses.
I do not.
I am convinced this is exactly that. An assault on reciprocity. The antis dont like shall issue reforms and they hate reciprocity.
This is nothing more than the first step to undermine reciprocity in Texas. Like always they couch their hatred of gun rights as "reasonable restrictions" because that rhetoric fools the masses.
JP171 wrote:I agree with the sponsor of the bill that some Texans are in fact using the ambiguity of the law to circumvent the reasonable requirement of Texans to be licensed in Texas. In the world of Emergency Medical Services, Air conditioning and Electricians you have the ability to use the reciprocity clause to obtain a Texas License, not to ignore the requirement to obtain a Texas License. The reality is that all EMT's A/C contractors and Electricians cannot perform the duties attendant to the pertinent Job description unless you have a Texas License period, there is no grace period, no allowance for you to practice under your license from another state, there is however a description of the punishment for violation of the requirement.
So if two EMTs come to Texas to spend time with their grandchildren for the summer, they can't pick up part time work as EMTs in Texas unless they get Texas licenses. Now some people are using that example to argue they shouldn't be able to carry their concealed handguns in Texas without Texas licenses?
What if their daughter is a single mother and came to Texas for work? Suppose she was busy with the new job and caring for her children and didn't make the time to take a CHL class. So now she shouldn't be allowed to carry a handgun to defend herself and the children either.
Wow!
The city is not a concrete jungle. It is a human zoo.
JP171 wrote:I agree with the sponsor of the bill that some Texans are in fact using the ambiguity of the law to circumvent the reasonable requirement of Texans to be licensed in Texas. In the world of Emergency Medical Services, Air conditioning and Electricians you have the ability to use the reciprocity clause to obtain a Texas License, not to ignore the requirement to obtain a Texas License. The reality is that all EMT's A/C contractors and Electricians cannot perform the duties attendant to the pertinent Job description unless you have a Texas License period, there is no grace period, no allowance for you to practice under your license from another state, there is however a description of the punishment for violation of the requirement.
So if two EMTs come to Texas to spend time with their grandchildren for the summer, they can't pick up part time work as EMTs in Texas unless they get Texas licenses. Now some people are using that example to argue they shouldn't be able to carry their concealed handguns in Texas without Texas licenses?
What if their daughter is a single mother and came to Texas for work? Suppose she was busy with the new job and caring for her children and didn't make the time to take a CHL class. So now she shouldn't be allowed to carry a handgun to defend herself and the children either.
Wow!
I am not advocating that if you are in texas as a non resident( non domiciliary stable) that you have to have a license from texas. if you have a permanent domicile you should have a texas license. the single mother in your example should have a texas license if she has no plans to return to the state she came here from, her being a single parent is irrelevant to the situation, she could be a pregnant jewish nun of the pagan faith that is purple with green polka dots she should still have to have the texas license. many other states already require a resident of that state to have the license from that state. reciprocity has never meant that you can use a license from another state as a permanent free card to be a resident of texas and not have a texas license.
Oh and not the non texas licensed EMT's cannot no matter if the are nationally registered they must register in texas if they want to work here and pay the fee same as everyone else and get the back ground check. good thing as this has caught several people that had licenses in their home state that had been revolked for felonies or sexual misconduct
If the professional license validity is independent of the licensee's state of residence, then holding them up as an example argues that the same independence should exist for CHL reciprocity.
Panda wrote:If the professional license validity is independent of the licensee's state of residence, then holding them up as an example argues that the same independence should exist for CHL reciprocity.
professional licenses are not independent of the state, MD's engineers and nurses EMT's Electricians AC contractors beauticians, all of them are only allowed to practice their craft/vocation in the state that its issued period! they cannot come to texas and act as whatever professional license allows in the state they are licensed in. you must apply for a reciprocity allowance and obtain your texas license within the allotted time or not do that job anymore, unless you just like paying court costs and fines
Panda wrote:If the professional license validity is independent of the licensee's state of residence, then holding them up as an example argues that the same independence should exist for CHL reciprocity.
professional licenses are not independent of the state, MD's engineers and nurses EMT's Electricians AC contractors beauticians, all of them are only allowed to practice their craft/vocation in the state that its issued period!
Panda said the licensee's State of residence is what doesn't matter, not what State granted the license.
It makes no difference if they're a permanent Texas resident, a temporary resident, or just passing through. If Texas recognizes their license, moving across State lines doesn't render it invalid. In either direction. The same as CHL now.
A CHL issued by Texas or Florida is valid no matter where the person calls home. On the other hand, a CHL from Oregon is no good in Texas, regardless of whether the person is a resident of Oregon or moved to Texas last month. That makes sense because the qualifications for a license issued by some State are either good enough or they're not, and that holds true even if the person moves from one Texarkana to the other.
"support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic"
Panda wrote:If the professional license validity is independent of the licensee's state of residence, then holding them up as an example argues that the same independence should exist for CHL reciprocity.
professional licenses are not independent of the state, MD's engineers and nurses EMT's Electricians AC contractors beauticians, all of them are only allowed to practice their craft/vocation in the state that its issued period!
Panda said the licensee's State of residence is what doesn't matter, not what State granted the license.
It makes no difference if they're a permanent Texas resident, a temporary resident, or just passing through. If Texas recognizes their license, moving across State lines doesn't render it invalid. In either direction. The same as CHL now.
A CHL issued by Texas or Florida is valid no matter where the person calls home. On the other hand, a CHL from Oregon is no good in Texas, regardless of whether the person is a resident of Oregon or moved to Texas last month. That makes sense because the qualifications for a license issued by some State are either good enough or they're not, and that holds true even if the person moves from one Texarkana to the other.
actually it does in the case of EMS licenses, can't get one in texas unless your a texas resident and its not valid in any other state nor is any other states license valid here in Texas. if you are a resident of Texas you should have a Texas license for CHL, going as a visitor to another state won't render its invalid if there is a reciprocity agreement with that state only if you become a permanent resident as in abandon your previous residence and become a domiciliary resident of Texas. oh and you both pulled a democrat here, you forgot to include the sentence following the quoted sentence
hillfighter wrote:That makes sense because the qualifications for a license issued by some State are either good enough or they're not, and that holds true even if the person moves from one Texarkana to the other.
That sounds reasonable. If Texas accepts a Florida concealed weapon license, we're in effect saying Florida's licensing standards are sufficient. If a Florida resident goes to Rice, and Texas accepts their Florida license while they're a student, it's absurd for Texas to suddenly deny reciprocity the day they graduate if they get in job in Houston but not if they get a job in Miami.
On the other hand, if the Florida license doesn't meet Texas standards because of insufficient training, or lax background checks, it's irresponsible for Texas to allow reciprocity for the Florida license in general, no matter where they officially live, or how short their stay in Texas.
actually not Mr. Froggie, as I said way back when, shouldn't need a license at all, but since we have one ya outta follow the law to the morally right path not circumvent the law because you can't meet the texas requirements
JP171 wrote:actually not Mr. Froggie, as I said way back when, shouldn't need a license at all, but since we have one ya outta follow the law to the morally right path not circumvent the law because you can't meet the texas requirements
Sorry, but for me it had nothing at all to do with meeting Texas requirements (I am squeaky clean ) I can and do meet all of Texas requirements.(And Have)
It was all for my convenience and wallet at the time.
"All it takes for evil to succeed is for good men to do nothing"
Don't pick a fight with an old man. If he is too old to fight, he'll just kill you.
JP171 wrote:actually not Mr. Froggie, as I said way back when, shouldn't need a license at all, but since we have one ya outta follow the law to the morally right path not circumvent the law because you can't meet the texas requirements
Sorry, but for me it had nothing at all to do with meeting Texas requirements (I am squeaky clean ) I can and do meet all of Texas requirements.(And Have)
It was all for my convenience and wallet at the time.
ok I understand that for you it wasn't the requirements but there are threads here that advocate using a Utah or Florida license to circumvent Texas requirements, not really right IMHO. I also agree that it is a bit high for the Texas CHL, as far as convenience well not really a good excuse to me but hey the laws didn't preclude it. However several states disallow already what you and other people are doing or did, Arizona is one if I remember correctly I think Florida is too, they do not allow a non resident license if you live in that state as a permanent resident( Charles explanation aside) if you are a permanent resident of the state you must have a license issued by the state, so why should we be different in that respect? again I dislike having to be licensed but since we are and the law only says if we live here we must be licensed here, why is that such a burden? is it so wrong to have to be licensed in your home state?
JP171 wrote:actually not Mr. Froggie, as I said way back when, shouldn't need a license at all, but since we have one ya outta follow the law to the morally right path not circumvent the law because you can't meet the texas requirements
No.
This bill reduces the freedom of Texans to make choices that are currently legal choices.
Thus it further restricts our rights, and no amount of sophistry changes that.
I choose liberty, not additional restrictions on our rights.
JP171 wrote:However several states disallow already what you and other people are doing or did, Arizona is one if I remember correctly I think Florida is too, they do not allow a non resident license if you live in that state as a permanent resident( Charles explanation aside) if you are a permanent resident of the state you must have a license issued by the state, so why should we be different in that respect? again I dislike having to be licensed but since we are and the law only says if we live here we must be licensed here, why is that such a burden? is it so wrong to have to be licensed in your home state?
IIRC, AZ does not require a concealed carry permit at all. If you can legally buy a firearm -- that is, get through NICS and the FBI -- you can carry it. Open or concealed.
) I can and do meet all of Texas requirements.(And Have)
