Commentary points out its the Democrats

[gdanaher]

A democrat with values?
I guess I should be thankful that at least you didn't use the two words in the same sentence.

Yes, democrats have values. Like all values, their values are formed by personal experience, just like yours, and just like you, those Democrats can sometimes be just as judgmental about their positions as you can be about your own.

[Robert*PPS]

You may be able to marry whatever sex you want, smoke whatever you want, end as many babies at whatever stage you wish, but you will eat, drink, drive, buy, say, live, wear, work, earn, have, and do only what and where you are allowed.

I wouldn't cut yourself short on articulation...this is very well said.

[sdmahoney]

Well, I think Democrats are stupid because they don't think $16 trillion in debt is a problem and running trillion dollar plus annual deficits is no big deal. That seems pretty stupid to me. If it doesn't to you, you probably vote for Democrats.

I believe Dick Cheney said in 2002 that deficits don't matter. Most Republicans don't really seem to think spending more money than the country takes in is a problem either, regardless of what they campaign on.

[The Annoyed Man]

A democrat with values?
I guess I should be thankful that at least you didn't use the two words in the same sentence.

Yes, democrats have values. Like all values, their values are formed by personal experience, just like yours, and just like you, those Democrats can sometimes be just as judgmental about their positions as you can be about your own.

And your values include screwing people like me who cannot afford health insurance out of the ability to pay for their own healthcare out of pocket, by stealing their healthcare money in the form of fines, and using it to buy healthcare insurance for people who are on the public dole. Some values..... Theft. Redistribution. Trashing of healthcare system. In short, soviet style communism.

Thanks for the "values" lesson, but I'll pass.

[anygunanywhere]

A democrat with values?
I guess I should be thankful that at least you didn't use the two words in the same sentence.

Yes, democrats have values. Like all values, their values are formed by personal experience, just like yours, and just like you, those Democrats can sometimes be just as judgmental about their positions as you can be about your own.

And your values include screwing people like me who cannot afford health insurance out of the ability to pay for their own healthcare out of pocket, by stealing their healthcare money in the form of fines, and using it to buy healthcare insurance for people who are on the public dole. Some values..... Theft. Redistribution. Trashing of healthcare system. In short, soviet style communism.

Thanks for the "values" lesson, but I'll pass.

Even satan has values.

Anygunanywhere

[jmra]

A democrat with values?
I guess I should be thankful that at least you didn't use the two words in the same sentence.

Yes, democrats have values. Like all values, their values are formed by personal experience, just like yours, and just like you, those Democrats can sometimes be just as judgmental about their positions as you can be about your own.

And your values include screwing people like me who cannot afford health insurance out of the ability to pay for their own healthcare out of pocket, by stealing their healthcare money in the form of fines, and using it to buy healthcare insurance for people who are on the public dole. Some values..... Theft. Redistribution. Trashing of healthcare system. In short, soviet style communism.

Thanks for the "values" lesson, but I'll pass.

Even satan has values.

Anygunanywhere

I stand corrected. If satan can have values I suppose Dems can too.

[gdanaher]

And your values include screwing people like me snip

How presumptive. You assume far too much about me, a total stranger, and those assumptions are not becoming. There are just too many opportunities to offer examples of public Republicans wanting to 'screw' someone though. Today's example is Rick Perry not signing the emergency declaration that would bring assistance to the residents of West. Now, that is really screwing people when they are down.

[Keith B]

Alright folks, keep this topic discussion business like and no personal attacks or the thread will be locked.

[The Annoyed Man]

And your values include screwing people like me snip

How presumptive. You assume far too much about me, a total stranger, and those assumptions are not becoming. There are just too many opportunities to offer examples of public Republicans wanting to 'screw' someone though. Today's example is Rick Perry not signing the emergency declaration that would bring assistance to the residents of West. Now, that is really screwing people when they are down.

You just beat up on Rick Perry....well, he's an easy target....and I suspect that you're leaving out some of the facts. Why do I suspect that? Because you STILL haven't addressed EITHER posts I made about the massive injustice of the democrat trashing of the healthcare system. BTW, I'm not a republican either, so I'm absolutely on solid ground. Don't have a party in the fight. Everything I said that will happen to me because of your party is an absolute indisputable fact. Your party is still the party of theft, redistribution, death panels and the trashing of 1/6 of the nation's economy. There's only one word to describe them: "Looters." I mean, I don't blame you for not wanting to talk about it. I'd be embarrassed and ashamed too.

[gdanaher]

Sorry, but you just seem to want to make personal attacks and generalize about the other party which you disdain. The moderator has already said to clean it up. My Perry comments are based on all that I've heard from the media today. There might be other factors, but they haven't been reported. Sorry you don't like the health care system. We are going to use it, like it or not, so if you don't have positive suggestions on how to fix the holes, and surely there are many, then quit complaining---its a "part of the problem or part of the solution" thing, and you don't appear to be attempting to make it better. I have a son who prior to affordable care was unable to buy insurance from anyone at any price do to preexisting conditions. Now he can, so as bad as it may be for you, it has helped at this end. Health care needed to be fixed for years, so what happened is pretty typical. The government stepped in and using heavy hands, imposed a set of rules that few like immediately, but which might work. It might not. What we know is the old system wasn't working. Maybe for you it was, but not for everyone. Write your congressman with specific corrections or changes that would make your personal situation better. Forget about the stock 'repeal it' letters. You got it. Use it, and try hard to fix it.

[Robert*PPS]

The pre-existing fix in Obamacare is just about the only thing that I can come close to agreeing with, so I certainly understand someone who benefited from that particular clause heralding the success of Obamacare. However, most people don't stop to ask, why were pre-existing condition clauses adopted by health insurance companies across the board in the first place? Those dirty so and so's wanted more evil profits!!!!! Actually, no. It was a solution to a problem where people would not bother with paying for a healthcare plan until they were sick. In the industry, they are called plan jumpers. Plan Jumpers hop onto coverage, get that knee surgery costing the plan thousands of dollars, then hop off once rehab is completed. It was a legal way of stealing from other people as the jumper would get $10,000 of medical services and only pay a fraction of the cost, leaving all of the other people on the health plan to pay for it. Plan jumpers taxed the insurance companies and its other customers to the point where a protection clause was put into place that said, if you already have this condition before getting insurance, then we will either: not let you join, or not cover that particular condition. The protective clause helped, but it had unintended consequences such as someone losing their coverage and then not being able to join somewhere else. Steps were taken to minimize the unintended consequences, but they were still quite a few situations where they happened.

THEN OBAMACARE CAME

So the proposal with the dealing with the pre-existing condition issue and the plan jumper issue was to require that everybody have health insurance and then do away with pre-ex. No plan jumpers if we force everybody on, thereby eliminating any need for pre-ex protection clauses, right? Well, yeah....until they EXEMPTED all of the "poor" people who cannot afford insurance to have it. Well that was flippin brilliant! They just created the ultimate plan jumper environment. This will put a burden on the whole system so fast, you won't even know what happened.

Person: "I can't afford insurance"...
Government:"OK then you don't have to get it"
Person: "but what if I get sick..."
Government:"then go get some insurance...nobody can say no...and we've capped the premiums so they can't price you out of the market...plus you'll get a nice credit on your tax return:
Person: "but then I'll be stuck with insurance I don't want to pay for after I'm well!"
Government: "No you won't, you can't afford insurance remember...so you can drop it without any penalties whatsoever!"
Person: "but wait, can't insurance companies put caps on the amount I can rack up on them?"
Government: "Oh no, we've made that illegal"
Person: "Well can we make them cover my birth control and other preventive care stuff with no out of pocket cost to me whatsoever?"
Government: "Done"
Person:"really?"
Government:"Yeah really! Just remember the good ol Democrats when it's time to vote!"

[The Annoyed Man]

Sorry, but you fired first with your "stupid" comment, and now you want to hide from an objective account of an immoral law behind a moderator's call to clean it up. I haven't called you any names and I haven't said any dirty words; but I have VERY MUCH called your party immoral. It is immoral. Just ask the 50 million voters who might have been alive today, but are not with us because your party advocated for the "right" to kill them before they could be born.

These are hard truths, but they ARE true. You've chosen to affiliate yourself with the democrat side in these matters. Don't be surprised if those of us who are personally negatively affected by your party's immoral fecklessness are reacting bitterly to the way you choose to exercise your vote. All politics are personal, and your vote has negatively affected me personally. I'm ticked off about it, and when the payback comes......and it will.... I'm not going to conveniently (for your side) forget from whence came the abomination.

The government stepped in and using heavy hands, imposed a set of rules that few like immediately....

Wrong.

DEMOCRATS stepped in and rammed a system down our throats which was WILDLY unpopular in the runup to the congressional votes....to the tune of almost 70% against. Democrats rammed a thousand page bill through, giving representatives a day to familiarize themselves with the final output of a 1000 page bill before voting on it, telling us—in perhaps the greatest instance of hubris I've ever seen—"we'll have to pass it to find out what's in it." That's just plain dishonest, and that's from the democrat party leader in the House. Sen. Baucus himself said that this bill is probably the worst law ever passed and called it a "train wreck." That's from the mouth of the DEMOCRAT whose name is on the Senate version of the bill.

ONE republican voted for it in the House, and only after democrats already had enough votes for passage. NOT ONE republican senator voted for it. Government didn't give us this abomination of a monstrosity. Democrats did. Don't try and wash your hands of it. Own it.

I certainly WILL try and get it repealed, as is my right as a citizen, your son notwithstanding, because the bill undermines my own ability to get healthcare, and gives it to someone else, and frankly, I care more about MY healthcare than I do about your son's. Under the old system, I was not able to afford insurance for preexisting conditions either, but I could at least afford to pay out of pocket for the four yearly doctors office visits, the multiple monthly prescription refills, and the four annual blood draws. Barely. Now, my ability to do so has been severely compromised. What we have now is WORSE than what we had before. Democrats should have followed the hippocratic oath's admonition to "first, do no harm." But it was the arrogance of the democrat party to imagine that it could take a wheezing crowbait, run it through a sausage maker, and try to sell the result as filet mignon. At least the crowbait was alive before democrats got their hands on it. Now it is dying and stinking.

Under the new system, courtesy of voters like you, I'm not poor enough to get state aid (which would make me part of the problem even if I were so inclined), but I can afford coverage even less today than I could before because your party drove the costs up for everybody. And my fines are going to go to pay for your son's coverage. Furthermore, the fines I'll be paying this year would have covered a significant part of my out of pocket expenses, so I am being driven into the poor house AND being denied healthcare access, and your answer is to tell me to just sit there and take it, and to brush it off as "holes in the system?" My friend's dad in Massachusetts (see my first response) is being denied care by a federal death panel on behalf of your son. Democrats—that's people who vote like you do—replaced a broken system with an evil system championed by the Thief-in-Chief, passed by spendthrifts who wipe their behinds with the Constitution, and administered by kleptocrats for the benefit of looters, at the expense of the productive. That's the same party that is going to disarm you when it gets the chance. The same party led by a man with no discernable academic record, whose vice president is enough of a monkey brain to suggest that the best way for me to defend myself is by sticking a double barrel out the window and fire two blasts into the void without a care for where the shot will fall. The same party deliberately tries to obfuscate the voting process, hasn't a care in the world for the integrity of our borders, stole one of the world's largest publicly held corporations and gave it away to the unions, forced banks to sell mortgages to unqualified people, I could go on and on and on, but what's the use? The country WILL be destroyed, because THAT is what the democrat party is willing to do to get votes, including from people who would have been deported 30 years ago instead of openly being encouraged to vote illegally today. The democrat party has no more clue of how to responsibly run a country than Hugo Chavez had in Venezuela (which explains why so many democrats thought Chavez was kewl), and now Venezuela's financial chickens are coming home to roost. Well, ours are right behind them, and when they land, it's going to be ugly.

The thing is, gdanaher, pretty much EVERYBODY, me included, agreed that the system needed to be fixed. There were proposals on the table from republicans to do just this. Democrats absolutely rejected those alternatives because they A) permitted insurance companies to remain solvent; and B) they did not create new entitlements. To the democrat party, "evil insurance companies" are like "big oil," just another bugaboo to blame for problems created by feckless government. You want the price of insurance to go down? Let me buy it out of state, or out of country. Obama, in an effort to make nice with insurance companies for the simple reason that, without THEIR support, the bill would never pass, proposed a system in which insurance exchanges would be created which regulated pricing for participant companies, but which does not require those companies to participate in those exchanges if they don't want to. Now, who's going to provide health insurance plans to the exchanges when the insurance companies no longer want to participate......and they won't? I'm sure you love your son. How are you going to feel when some faceless bureaucrat tells your family, just like what happened to my friend's dad, that your son's life doesn't have enough value to provide coverage? That day IS coming for your son....maybe not today, but soon enough. All democrats did was throw some voters to the wolves in the vain hope that the wolves wouldn't be hungry any longer.

Phhhhttt! That's what I give for the democrat party. The party of looters. The party doesn't know how to create wealth or to promote wealth creation. The party only know how to destroy it. I'm so disgusted with the democrat party, and I am ASHAMED that I voted democrat for the first 22 years of my voting life.....and only slightly less ashamed that I voted republican for the next 17. But at least republicans had the good sense not to support this evil legislation. If we ever have a revolution, democrats, who more than anybody will have pushed us to that point, are likely to become as rare a breed as openly avowed post-revolution tories.

[gdanaher]

Calm down and take something for the blood pressure. It's just the internet. If what you say is true about your health plan, you can't afford to have a stroke.

[The Annoyed Man]

Calm down and take something for the blood pressure. It's just the internet. If what you say is true about your health plan, you can't afford to have a stroke.

I assure you I am calm. Angry, but calm. That's the worst kind of angry in a citizen if you're an oppressive government, and there are many millions more like me.

Democrats should be genuinely worried, because it is precisely that dismissive arrogant hauteur of liberals which you've just expressed which is fueling that anger in so many. You reap what you sow.

[baldeagle]

Well, I think Democrats are stupid because they don't think $16 trillion in debt is a problem and running trillion dollar plus annual deficits is no big deal. That seems pretty stupid to me. If it doesn't to you, you probably vote for Democrats.

I believe Dick Cheney said in 2002 that deficits don't matter. Most Republicans don't really seem to think spending more money than the country takes in is a problem either, regardless of what they campaign on.

I never said Republicans weren't stupid. Democrats are just stupid on steroids.