Boston Tried a Police State and it Failed

[whodat1]

I wonder how many don't fly domestically anymore because of TSA?

Some I know like me would rather drive or not go...

I no longer leave the country either, but if I did I'd seek an alternative than tolerate TSA.

I have to go from Houston to Tulsa for work next week. I asked the customer if he would mind me taking a bit more time getting there because I would rather drive up than fly these days. The customer told me that it would be fine since he feels the same way himself.

An added advantage is that it makes it all that much easier to take my carry weapon along.

[VMI77]

Guess I will be the only one not afraid to post in disagreement. Are there any proven cases where somebody went outside and was arrested? I have not read about one. They asked people to stay inside and they did while they went house to house in a contained area looking for a terrorist believed to be armed with weapons and explosives. It obviously worked because the terrorist stayed put and they were able to apprehend him w/o anybody else being injured. Obviously the residents of Boston who lived through this don't have an issue with it due to the parades, ect they are throwing for the officers.

Wow. Just wow. I've seen the videos of people being pulled out of their homes at gun point, hands over their heads, while the cops yelled at them like they were criminals. There is a photo out there of an officer pointing his M4 at someone looking out their window. The video below, a TV station video, says they BROKE DOWN A DOOR and forced the cowering residents outside at gun point. That is what you're supporting? Even some of the cheerful slaves admitted they were scared and intimidated at being forced out of their homes at gun point. They ordered people to get away from their windows --that too was in one of the videos. On one video the guy says his neighbor went outside, refused to go inside, and was arrested and taken to jail. Can I prove it, no. But what difference does it make? Here's a 4th Amendment refresher:

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized

Am I secure in my home when law enforcement points a gun and me and orders me to leave my home? You're down with pointing guns at people holding babies? Do you place any limits on what orders you will follow? Would YOU break down my door under similar circumstances, point a gun at my wife and force her out of our home at gunpoint, without a warrant, without probable cause that she'd committed a crime, and try to pretend as they did here, to be in hot pursuit? The officers that participated in these tactics are helping the left kill our Republic and turn this country into a police state. Like another posted here, I too would be dead. No, I wouldn't have shot at police or displayed a weapon of any kind, but I would have refused their orders, I would not have left my home under my own power, and they would have had to drag, carry, or kill me in front of the TV cameras.

BTW, this de facto martial law wasn't just pulling people out of their homes at gun point, it included shutting down transportation and businesses, preventing people from going to work, and costing people millions of dollars in lost revenue. Just what is the difference between shutting down a city and going house to house at gun point to find one criminal versus doing the same thing in Chicago or Los Angeles to find a bunch of criminals? Why not use this tactic on the gang bangers in South LA? If some deranged lunatic is running around my city and I want to keep my business open that is my business --if I don't live in a police state. And if no one wants to patronize my business under such conditions, that's their business....or at least, that's the way it works in a free country. Hey, the people involved, many of them at least, are apparently fine with being treated like prisoners, and being "locked down" in their cells. Well, I"m not, and I think a lot other people posting here aren't either, and I'm not going to cheerily slip on my shackles to make it easier for law enforcement.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl ... -ZUN3Li0#!

[jmra]

Guess I will be the only one not afraid to post in disagreement. Are there any proven cases where somebody went outside and was arrested? I have not read about one. They asked people to stay inside and they did while they went house to house in a contained area looking for a terrorist believed to be armed with weapons and explosives. It obviously worked because the terrorist stayed put and they were able to apprehend him w/o anybody else being injured. Obviously the residents of Boston who lived through this don't have an issue with it due to the parades, ect they are throwing for the officers.

Wow. Just wow. I've seen the videos of people being pulled out of their homes at gun point, hands over their heads, while the cops yelled at them like they were criminals. There is a photo out there of an officer pointing his M4 at someone looking out their window. The video below, a TV station video, says they BROKE DOWN A DOOR and forced the cowering residents outside at gun point. That is what you're supporting? Even some of the cheerful slaves admitted they were scared and intimidated at being forced out of their homes at gun point. They ordered people to get away from their windows --that too was in one of the videos. On one video the guy says his neighbor went outside, refused to go inside, and was arrested and taken to jail. Can I prove it, no. But what difference does it make? Here's a 4th Amendment refresher:

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized

Am I secure in my home when law enforcement points a gun and me and orders me to leave my home? You're down with pointing guns at people holding babies? Do you place any limits on what orders you will follow? Would YOU break down my door under similar circumstances, point a gun at my wife and force her out of our home at gunpoint, without a warrant, without probable cause that she'd committed a crime, and try to pretend as they did here, to be in hot pursuit? The officers that participated in these tactics are helping the left kill our Republic and turn this country into a police state. Like another posted here, I too would be dead. No, I wouldn't have shot at police or displayed a weapon of any kind, but I would have refused their orders, I would not have left my home under my own power, and they would have had to drag, carry, or kill me in front of the TV cameras.

BTW, this de facto martial law wasn't just pulling people out of their homes at gun point, it included shutting down transportation and businesses, preventing people from going to work, and costing people millions of dollars in lost revenue. Just what is the difference between shutting down a city and going house to house at gun point to find one criminal versus doing the same thing in Chicago or Los Angeles to find a bunch of criminals? Why not use this tactic on the gang bangers in South LA? If some deranged lunatic is running around my city and I want to keep my business open that is my business --if I don't live in a police state. And if no one wants to patronize my business under such conditions, that's their business....or at least, that's the way it works in a free country. Hey, the people involved, many of them at least, are apparently fine with being treated like prisoners, and being "locked down" in their cells. Well, I"m not, and I think a lot other people posting here aren't either, and I'm not going to cheerily slip on my shackles to make it easier for law enforcement.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl ... -ZUN3Li0#!

100%

[2firfun50]

Guess I will be the only one not afraid to post in disagreement. Are there any proven cases where somebody went outside and was arrested? I have not read about one. They asked people to stay inside and they did while they went house to house in a contained area looking for a terrorist believed to be armed with weapons and explosives. It obviously worked because the terrorist stayed put and they were able to apprehend him w/o anybody else being injured. Obviously the residents of Boston who lived through this don't have an issue with it due to the parades, ect they are throwing for the officers.

Wow. Just wow. I've seen the videos of people being pulled out of their homes at gun point, hands over their heads, while the cops yelled at them like they were criminals. There is a photo out there of an officer pointing his M4 at someone looking out their window. The video below, a TV station video, says they BROKE DOWN A DOOR and forced the cowering residents outside at gun point. That is what you're supporting? Even some of the cheerful slaves admitted they were scared and intimidated at being forced out of their homes at gun point. They ordered people to get away from their windows --that too was in one of the videos. On one video the guy says his neighbor went outside, refused to go inside, and was arrested and taken to jail. Can I prove it, no. But what difference does it make? Here's a 4th Amendment refresher:

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized

Am I secure in my home when law enforcement points a gun and me and orders me to leave my home? You're down with pointing guns at people holding babies? Do you place any limits on what orders you will follow? Would YOU break down my door under similar circumstances, point a gun at my wife and force her out of our home at gunpoint, without a warrant, without probable cause that she'd committed a crime, and try to pretend as they did here, to be in hot pursuit? The officers that participated in these tactics are helping the left kill our Republic and turn this country into a police state. Like another posted here, I too would be dead. No, I wouldn't have shot at police or displayed a weapon of any kind, but I would have refused their orders, I would not have left my home under my own power, and they would have had to drag, carry, or kill me in front of the TV cameras.

BTW, this de facto martial law wasn't just pulling people out of their homes at gun point, it included shutting down transportation and businesses, preventing people from going to work, and costing people millions of dollars in lost revenue. Just what is the difference between shutting down a city and going house to house at gun point to find one criminal versus doing the same thing in Chicago or Los Angeles to find a bunch of criminals? Why not use this tactic on the gang bangers in South LA? If some deranged lunatic is running around my city and I want to keep my business open that is my business --if I don't live in a police state. And if no one wants to patronize my business under such conditions, that's their business....or at least, that's the way it works in a free country. Hey, the people involved, many of them at least, are apparently fine with being treated like prisoners, and being "locked down" in their cells. Well, I"m not, and I think a lot other people posting here aren't either, and I'm not going to cheerily slip on my shackles to make it easier for law enforcement.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl ... -ZUN3Li0#!

100%

While I sometimes lean a little too far left for some, what I saw was a para-military assault on a neighborhood. All to look for 1 guy. Looked to me like they had more body armor, assault vehicles and automatic weapons than an infantry brigade. It's Boston, not the middle east.

[handog]

This whole tragic episode proves just how prepared they are are for martial law in this country. And how incompetent the DHS is. They spent a trillion dollars on surveillance and could not prevent this bombing. They have a legion of new recruits who are willing to kick in doors of law abiding citizens without a search warrant and supersede the fourth amendment for a pay check. And who found the bomber? A citizen breaking the law by going outside of his house to smoke a cigarette in his own back yard. And so, let's strike up the band. Have a parade. Have the Red Socks pitcher and all the fans congratulate the great job Police have done to keep us safe.

[surprise_i'm_armed]

Well the actions taken by the LEO's were certainly out of the norm, and not desirable from a purely
Constitutional viewpoint.

So what are most of you advocating... that the Boston LEO's should have just gone back to their police station for coffee
and donuts and waited for the bomber brothers to turn themselves in? Sheesh.

They did a manhunt for proven killers, they had a 200 or more round shootout, they killed one of them, and captured
the other one. All in only 4 days from the time of the explosions.

Some people wouldn't be happy if they got hung with a new rope. :-)

SIA

[03Lightningrocks]

One would have to visit the east coast for a few days to understand but they actually see the government as a parent type figure out there. I was amazed at how subservient east coasters were. I'm talking all up and down the east coast. I spent more time than I wanted in cities along the east coast when playing drag racer. It is sickening at best. No kidding folks. People from that part of the country are the very definition of sheep. I could picture them kneeling down at obama's feet and kissing his ring. We aren't talking just exceptions either. It is the vast majority of them.

[jmra]

One would have to visit the east coast for a few days to understand but they actually see the government as a parent type figure out there. I was amazed at how subservient east coasters were. I'm talking all up and down the east coast. I spent more time than I wanted in cities along the east coast when playing drag racer. It is sickening at best. No kidding folks. People from that part of the country are the very definition of sheep. I could picture them kneeling down at obama's feet and kissing his ring. We aren't talking just exceptions either. It is the vast majority of them.

After what I've seen in Boston, I believe it.

[chasfm11]

Well the actions taken by the LEO's were certainly out of the norm, and not desirable from a purely
Constitutional viewpoint.

So what are most of you advocating... that the Boston LEO's should have just gone back to their police station for coffee
and donuts and waited for the bomber brothers to turn themselves in? Sheesh.

They did a manhunt for proven killers, they had a 200 or more round shootout, they killed one of them, and captured
the other one. All in only 4 days from the time of the explosions.

Some people wouldn't be happy if they got hung with a new rope. :-)

SIA

I see it differently.

1. For all of the fancy gear and surveillance that goes on, it was one of the victims who told them who they they needed to look for. So, like the shoe bomber and the underwear bomber, it was the general public, not the massed forces that was critical to the solution.
2. The whole manhunt appears to the been run like the TSA - pick on the innocent civilians because it is too hard to actually find the BGs. Let's kick in doors instead of enlisting the public's help beyond showing the photos on TV.
3. The actual shootout description hasn't made sense to me. The claim is that the younger brother ran over the old brother while LE was trying to handcuff him. Given the manpower present, how could that happen? I know that they desperately wanted to take them alive. Two BGs with a limited number of weapons seem to have held their own against a superior number of highly trained forces with better weapons. How did that happen?
4. If the account is to be believed, it was the guy who owned the boat where terrorist #2 was hiding the tipped off the authorities and gave LE a place to surround.

I'm not OK with the TSA patting down little girls in the name of protecting them. I'm not OK with LE taking a mass punishment approach and pointing guns at civilians while trying to find BGs. The us and them is between the American people and these creeps that want to blow up kids. It is not between LE and the American people. To the extent that actions taken make things look like the latter and not the former, the are wrong. This is not Beziers.

I personally would have been fine with seeing the younger creep hung with a new rope on the spot. The chances of getting any actionable intelligence out of him are about as good as my being hit by a meteorite - twice, based on the approach that is being used.

While I'm on a rant, let me throw in this question: why is the 8 year old who was killed by the bomber less of a victim than the kids at Sandy Hook? The answer is because he doesn't do anything to advance a political agenda and his death, because of those who are responsible for it, is a deterrent to that political agenda. That is just wrong.

[Ericstac]

They had no idea what they were looking for. All they knew if was these two nonAmericans, but had to assume they were part of a radical group waiting for the law to come into their trap. There could of been 500 young soldiers waiting for Boston pd and national guard to roll up and then they blast them with their dirty bombs and free Obama guns while Michelle escapes out the back door. So with all this as a possibility if course they setup to look like they were taking over our great nation but really they were just being careful they made the right move. Luckily they cell trap was not ignited and they let the two young members take the heat for now.

/devils advocate

[jmra]

I'm not OK with the TSA patting down little girls in the name of protecting them. I'm not OK with LE taking a mass punishment approach and pointing guns at civilians while trying to find BGs. The us and them is between the American people and these creeps that want to blow up kids. It is not between LE and the American people. To the extent that actions taken make things look like the latter and not the former, the are wrong. This is not Beziers.

[anygunanywhere]

Guess I will be the only one not afraid to post in disagreement. Are there any proven cases where somebody went outside and was arrested? I have not read about one. They asked people to stay inside and they did while they went house to house in a contained area looking for a terrorist believed to be armed with weapons and explosives. It obviously worked because the terrorist stayed put and they were able to apprehend him w/o anybody else being injured. Obviously the residents of Boston who lived through this don't have an issue with it due to the parades, ect they are throwing for the officers.

Wow. Just wow. I've seen the videos of people being pulled out of their homes at gun point, hands over their heads, while the cops yelled at them like they were criminals. There is a photo out there of an officer pointing his M4 at someone looking out their window. The video below, a TV station video, says they BROKE DOWN A DOOR and forced the cowering residents outside at gun point. That is what you're supporting? Even some of the cheerful slaves admitted they were scared and intimidated at being forced out of their homes at gun point. They ordered people to get away from their windows --that too was in one of the videos. On one video the guy says his neighbor went outside, refused to go inside, and was arrested and taken to jail. Can I prove it, no. But what difference does it make? Here's a 4th Amendment refresher:

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized

Am I secure in my home when law enforcement points a gun and me and orders me to leave my home? You're down with pointing guns at people holding babies? Do you place any limits on what orders you will follow? Would YOU break down my door under similar circumstances, point a gun at my wife and force her out of our home at gunpoint, without a warrant, without probable cause that she'd committed a crime, and try to pretend as they did here, to be in hot pursuit? The officers that participated in these tactics are helping the left kill our Republic and turn this country into a police state. Like another posted here, I too would be dead. No, I wouldn't have shot at police or displayed a weapon of any kind, but I would have refused their orders, I would not have left my home under my own power, and they would have had to drag, carry, or kill me in front of the TV cameras.

BTW, this de facto martial law wasn't just pulling people out of their homes at gun point, it included shutting down transportation and businesses, preventing people from going to work, and costing people millions of dollars in lost revenue. Just what is the difference between shutting down a city and going house to house at gun point to find one criminal versus doing the same thing in Chicago or Los Angeles to find a bunch of criminals? Why not use this tactic on the gang bangers in South LA? If some deranged lunatic is running around my city and I want to keep my business open that is my business --if I don't live in a police state. And if no one wants to patronize my business under such conditions, that's their business....or at least, that's the way it works in a free country. Hey, the people involved, many of them at least, are apparently fine with being treated like prisoners, and being "locked down" in their cells. Well, I"m not, and I think a lot other people posting here aren't either, and I'm not going to cheerily slip on my shackles to make it easier for law enforcement.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl ... -ZUN3Li0#!

Anygunanywhere

[tboesche]

I travel fro business quite a bit. If the trip is less than a 12 hour drive, I drive. if it is longer than that, I try to find a way to teleconference if possible. As far as what went down in Boston, I will reserve my comments so that I do not get banned from this board, but suffice it to say that I am not pleased with the way events unfolded.

[VMI77]

This whole tragic episode proves just how prepared they are are for martial law in this country. And how incompetent the DHS is. They spent a trillion dollars on surveillance and could not prevent this bombing. They have a legion of new recruits who are willing to kick in doors of law abiding citizens without a search warrant and supersede the fourth amendment for a pay check. And who found the bomber? A citizen breaking the law by going outside of his house to smoke a cigarette in his own back yard. And so, let's strike up the band. Have a parade. Have the Red Socks pitcher and all the fans congratulate the great job Police have done to keep us safe.

And he paid for it too....they destroyed his $50K boat and left him holding the bag for it.

[VMI77]

Well the actions taken by the LEO's were certainly out of the norm, and not desirable from a purely
Constitutional viewpoint.

So what are most of you advocating... that the Boston LEO's should have just gone back to their police station for coffee
and donuts and waited for the bomber brothers to turn themselves in? Sheesh.

They did a manhunt for proven killers, they had a 200 or more round shootout, they killed one of them, and captured
the other one. All in only 4 days from the time of the explosions.

Some people wouldn't be happy if they got hung with a new rope. :-)

SIA

No, they didn't really do a manhunt.....in a real manhunt they would have been using dogs to find the guy like the military uses dogs to find insurgents. Dogs can pick up a trail that is hours old. So why no dogs? Looks to me like they had other priorities, and finding the suspect was not #1.

And another thing that strikes me is the very dangerous way they dragged people out of their homes. In the first place, people in other homes could see what was going on, so there was zero element of surprise had the BG been in one of the homes. They weren't carefully evaluating a potential hostage situation, just kicking in doors....so what would have happened if the BG had surrounded himself with children, mom and dad, and started shooting at the cops when they came through the door? Is that how the cops would have entered if they KNEW a BG was in a home and there was a potential hostage situation....straight through the front door? We know the answer is NOT. So, for expediency they were willing to sacrifice the citizens they're supposed to protect. This was much less a manhunt and much more an exercise in the display of power.