LEO's under attack

[gringo pistolero]

And as far as being paid enough.....we're supposed to have a "free market," and imperfections granted, if the pay wasn't enough to attract enough qualified people to do the job then pay would have to increase.

We're supposed to have a free market but then the unions get involved and the market is no longer free. We often end up with people who are paid more than the fair market value of their work, but believe they are underpaid because they drank the koolaid. Look at teachers for a good example.

Many people think private schools do a better job educating children than public schools. They vote with their wallet when they pay the tuition. But if you look at salaries, private school teachers often get paid less than public school teachers. And why do public school teachers get paid more? It's the unions.

[handog]

There is a difference that many seem to forget. The LEO responds to the calls and seeks out the bad guy while the CHL holder carries for self defense.

Thank you for the reminder that the citizens are on the front line. In many cases the LEO responds to the calls after a citizen is attacked or victimized by criminals in some other way. A good reminder for us all. Thanks.

^^ CHLs are the first responders in most cases. Without pay I might add.

[PSTL*PAKR]

There is a difference that many seem to forget. The LEO responds to the calls and seeks out the bad guy while the CHL holder carries for self defense.

Thank you for the reminder that the citizens are on the front line. In many cases the LEO responds to the calls after a citizen is attacked or victimized by criminals in some other way. A good reminder for us all. Thanks.

^^ CHLs are the first responders in most cases. Without pay I might add.

_________________________________________
Trying to be a hero will get you hurt/killed in most cases. Looks like a lot of CHL holders are going around looking for something to get into. WE ARE NOT LEO's and should stay out of places that dont concern us.

[handog]

There is a difference that many seem to forget. The LEO responds to the calls and seeks out the bad guy while the CHL holder carries for self defense.

Thank you for the reminder that the citizens are on the front line. In many cases the LEO responds to the calls after a citizen is attacked or victimized by criminals in some other way. A good reminder for us all. Thanks.

^^ CHLs are the first responders in most cases. Without pay I might add.

_________________________________________
Trying to be a hero will get you hurt/killed in most cases. Looks like a lot of CHL holders are going around looking for something to get into. WE ARE NOT LEO's and should stay out of places that dont concern us.

Is this from the gun control lobby handbook?

There are nearly two million defensive gun uses annually by law abiding gun owners who chose not to be a victim. They are on the front line. As the old saying goes, when seconds count the police are just minutes away. It's not about being a hero.


"Newsweek has reported that law-abiding American citizens using guns in self-defense shot and killed two and one-half times as many criminals as police did, and with fewer than one-fifth as many incidents as police where an innocent person mistakenly identified as a criminal (2% versus 11%)."

[jmra]

There is a difference that many seem to forget. The LEO responds to the calls and seeks out the bad guy while the CHL holder carries for self defense.

Thank you for the reminder that the citizens are on the front line. In many cases the LEO responds to the calls after a citizen is attacked or victimized by criminals in some other way. A good reminder for us all. Thanks.

^^ CHLs are the first responders in most cases. Without pay I might add.

_________________________________________
Trying to be a hero will get you hurt/killed in most cases. Looks like a lot of CHL holders are going around looking for something to get into. WE ARE NOT LEO's and should stay out of places that dont concern us.

Don't know where you are getting your info but you couldn't be more wrong. The proof is in the crime statistics. If your assumption was correct then the crime rate among CHL holders would reflect such. As it is crime committed by CHL holders is a statistical non-event.

[tacticool]

There is a difference that many seem to forget. The LEO responds to the calls and seeks out the bad guy while the CHL holder carries for self defense.

Thank you for the reminder that the citizens are on the front line. In many cases the LEO responds to the calls after a citizen is attacked or victimized by criminals in some other way. A good reminder for us all. Thanks.

^^ CHLs are the first responders in most cases. Without pay I might add.

Trying to be a hero will get you hurt/killed in most cases. Looks like a lot of CHL holders are going around looking for something to get into. WE ARE NOT LEO's and should stay out of places that dont concern us.

Who is looking for trouble? The nurse who defends herself from being kidnapped in the parking lot at work, and avoids being subsequently raped? Or maybe it's the pizza delivery driver who defends himself from a robber who called in the false order to lure the victim? These are the people on the front lines in the war on crime.

If you want to "avoid being a hero" and do what criminals demand, that's your choice to make for yourself. But you have no right to force me to be a victim. Those who deny me the most effective tools to defend myself and the people I love are no better than the violent criminals they enable and abet.

[C-dub]

There is a difference that many seem to forget. The LEO responds to the calls and seeks out the bad guy while the CHL holder carries for self defense.

Thank you for the reminder that the citizens are on the front line. In many cases the LEO responds to the calls after a citizen is attacked or victimized by criminals in some other way. A good reminder for us all. Thanks.

^^ CHLs are the first responders in most cases. Without pay I might add.

_________________________________________
Trying to be a hero will get you hurt/killed in most cases. Looks like a lot of CHL holders are going around looking for something to get into. WE ARE NOT LEO's and should stay out of places that dont concern us.

I think Handog is referring to the fact that there are far more CHL holders than LEOs and the probability that a CHL holder is already at the scene of a problem as it is happening, as opposed to a LEO.

[VMI77]

And as far as being paid enough.....we're supposed to have a "free market," and imperfections granted, if the pay wasn't enough to attract enough qualified people to do the job then pay would have to increase.

We're supposed to have a free market but then the unions get involved and the market is no longer free. We often end up with people who are paid more than the fair market value of their work, but believe they are underpaid because they drank the koolaid. Look at teachers for a good example.

Many people think private schools do a better job educating children than public schools. They vote with their wallet when they pay the tuition. But if you look at salaries, private school teachers often get paid less than public school teachers. And why do public school teachers get paid more? It's the unions.

I agree completely...notice I put "free market" in quotes. My point was simply that the pay isn't a mystery and is known beforehand and qualified people still choose the job. If there were not enough qualified people to do the job then either the pay would have to be increased or the qualifications lowered. It appears that at the current levels of qualification there are sufficient people choosing to do the job, and that suggests that the level of pay must be either too high or about right, and not too low.

[Panda]

I agree completely...notice I put "free market" in quotes. My point was simply that the pay isn't a mystery and is known beforehand and qualified people still choose the job. If there were not enough qualified people to do the job then either the pay would have to be increased or the qualifications lowered. It appears that at the current levels of qualification there are sufficient people choosing to do the job, and that suggests that the level of pay must be either too high or about right, and not too low.

Not just base pay but total compensation. Government pensions are a huge drain on the tax base. Fifty years ago when the taxpayers had pensions from their corporate employers, maybe that was reasonable. However, in the current job market where private sector pensions are rare, its time to eliminate them for public servants too. From dog catcher to senator, they should get no retirement perks except SS and what they save. The same as the people paying their paycheck.

[anygunanywhere]

I agree completely...notice I put "free market" in quotes. My point was simply that the pay isn't a mystery and is known beforehand and qualified people still choose the job. If there were not enough qualified people to do the job then either the pay would have to be increased or the qualifications lowered. It appears that at the current levels of qualification there are sufficient people choosing to do the job, and that suggests that the level of pay must be either too high or about right, and not too low.

Not just base pay but total compensation. Government pensions are a huge drain on the tax base. Fifty years ago when the taxpayers had pensions from their corporate employers, maybe that was reasonable. However, in the current job market where private sector pensions are rare, its time to eliminate them for public servants too. From dog catcher to senator, they should get no retirement perks except SS and what they save. The same as the people paying their paycheck.

Goodness. You are quite the radical. You are gonna get it now.



Makes perfect sense to me.

401(k)s for everybody!!

Teachers too!

Anygunanywhere

[VMI77]

I agree completely...notice I put "free market" in quotes. My point was simply that the pay isn't a mystery and is known beforehand and qualified people still choose the job. If there were not enough qualified people to do the job then either the pay would have to be increased or the qualifications lowered. It appears that at the current levels of qualification there are sufficient people choosing to do the job, and that suggests that the level of pay must be either too high or about right, and not too low.

Not just base pay but total compensation. Government pensions are a huge drain on the tax base. Fifty years ago when the taxpayers had pensions from their corporate employers, maybe that was reasonable. However, in the current job market where private sector pensions are rare, its time to eliminate them for public servants too. From dog catcher to senator, they should get no retirement perks except SS and what they save. The same as the people paying their paycheck.

Do you realize that, for example, City of Austin employees can retire at 66% of base pay after 20 years employment? I work with a guy whose friend retired at age 37, after 17 years service, having bought out his last three years. This isn't merely outrageous, it's mathematically unsustainable.

[talltex]

How about our own State Legislators? Why would anyone spend the money to run for an office that pays only $600 per month plus $150 per diem while in session ( comes out to $17,000 per year)...because if they hold an office only 8 years, they are entitled to full pension benefits starting at age 60, based not on their own small salaries, but on a Judge's salary of $125,000 per year. If they hold office for just 10 years total, they can start drawing the pension money at age 50! PLUS, they receive lifetime health insurance benefits.

[bayouhazard]

These scams make Ponzi look like an amateur.

[VMI77]

How about our own State Legislators? Why would anyone spend the money to run for an office that pays only $600 per month plus $150 per diem while in session ( comes out to $17,000 per year)...because if they hold an office only 8 years, they are entitled to full pension benefits starting at age 60, based not on their own small salaries, but on a Judge's salary of $125,000 per year. If they hold office for just 10 years total, they can start drawing the pension money at age 50! PLUS, they receive lifetime health insurance benefits.

That's not the only scam. Used to have a coworker who got appointed to some State board/committee, and they get a similar deal, except their pension is based on the pay of whoever heads the branch or department of government the committee/board reports through --and in many cases that is way more than $125K per year.

[gigag04]

I would suggest anyone jealous of PD pension benefits go through the academy and go get their own.

Free market economy works both ways...you saying that my retirement should be more like yours is no different than me wanting my salary to look like and escalate on the same level as a private sector professional.

And FWIW, I'm not going to be a cop forever. I have been completing my engineering degree by day and working at night. I graduate in a few weeks and have accepted an electrical manufacturer. I'll still hit the streets as a reserve once a month or so, and will probably get into training too...