Fire Marshal making up "laws"

[mojo84]

Stating the obvious, it is critical to make sure no bullets or shot cross the property line.

[anygunanywhere]

Got warrant??

No??

Leave. You are trespassing.

Anygunanywhere

[K.Mooneyham]

Do you know if you neighbor has owned that same piece of property they are on for a long time? The reason I ask is this...I lived my teenage years in South Texas. Those that lived "out in the brush" the longest, tended to hold sway with the local law enforcement at a higher rate than others who had lived there less time. It was simply a matter of familiarity to some degree, and if its true in this case, might lead the law enforcement types to tend to believe your neighbor.

[KaiserB]

Got warrant??

No??

Leave. You are trespassing.

Anygunanywhere

You may want to read up on the applicable laws since Fire Marshals, Code Enforcement, Game Wardens etc. do not require a warrant to enter your property ...

[anygunanywhere]

Got warrant??

No??

Leave. You are trespassing.

Anygunanywhere

You may want to read up on the applicable laws since Fire Marshals, Code Enforcement, Game Wardens etc. do not require a warrant to enter your property ...

That may be the law, but that still is in violation of the Fourth Amendment. Remember just because a court says it is right that does not make it so.

Barrycare is also declared legal/constitutional by justice roberts. Do you agree?

If it was my property that is what I would tell them. They would have to press the issue and either cite me or arrest me. If you let your liberty and rights get trampled on and do nothing to defend your position then you cannot complain.

Anygunanywhere

[jimlongley]

This is it almost done: (I'm 5'10" so the berm is about 11ft high here)
[ Image ]

This is how we were shooting. Notice not everybody is shooting, we were taking turns.
[ Image ]

Wow, can I be your cousin?

[talltex]

Got warrant??

No??

Leave. You are trespassing.

Anygunanywhere

You may want to read up on the applicable laws since Fire Marshals, Code Enforcement, Game Wardens etc. do not require a warrant to enter your property ...

I don't know about Fire Marshal's or Code Enforcement, but that's 100% correct on Game Wardens...they can drive onto posted property and cross fences at will....have had them park quite aways off and cross a couple of pastures to sneak up on dove hunts. They usually stay hidden and observe awhile for obvious violations, then step out from cover and check licenses...guns for plugs...limit violations.

[TeXJ]

Sorry for the strife in your life!! Hope your situation gets resloved soon. Mine is somewhat better.

About a year ago my neighbor said 2 of my cows came on his place(community fence), ate a bunch of hay and seduced his bull. To call it even I needed to pay him $400 or give him a calf of his choice. I said, "I wasn't going to do that, how about I pay you for the hay and a little extra for your trouble"? He refused and started shooting (at a target, not at me) everytime I'd go outside. We live outside the city limits. Scared me to death the first few times not knowing he was going to start shooting.
Well... I decided to build my own gun range. I'm not saying I go shoot when he's out or invite a bunch of friends over to shoot when he's out but he's been a little less trigger happy lately. Takes more than a fence to make a good neighbor. With the ammo shortage neither of us have been doing much shooting lately.

The thing is we barely go out there and shoot. I'm in College, went back after just having my Associates, I go to school year around. There are months we dont even shoot and then when we do it is once a month. Last time I was out there was about a month ago. So we arent even out there every weekend even.

TeXJ: google "crazy lady gun range" (warning: it will most likely come up showing AR15.com and some profanity on the thread)...here's a clean version on this forum:

viewtopic.php?f=10&t=16951" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Thanks that feels all too familiar. :(


Update: my dad went and talked with the fire marshal today in an hour meeting. Basically the fire marshal thinks we are a business and wants us to go through the hoopla that involves, $500k in insurance, engineering work,.... The Fire Marshal also said that we cannot have 20 people that at a time. Excuse me?! I thought this was America, where if a land owner can enjoy his freedoms and not have somebody making up laws/rules out of a whim.

So would the NRA be interested in helping, or even the 2nd Amendment foundation?

what right does the Fire Marshall have to say that you are a business? do you call yourself by a special name? do you charge? just because your friends gave you a donation doesn't mean squat! when I host a soap-making session and my friends give me a donation to help cover expenses that doesn't mean I'm a business....yet (maybe sometime) sounds like your local Fire Marshall is on a power trip

I concur, however getting through to him might be another mountain to climb.

[TeXJ]

This is it almost done: (I'm 5'10" so the berm is about 11ft high here)
[ Image ]

This is how we were shooting. Notice not everybody is shooting, we were taking turns.
[ Image ]

Wow, can I be your cousin?

haha sure! Plus you're in allen, the property is in Princeton. However, until this is resolved it might just be me out there. It sounds like the fire marshal only wants immediate family there, not sure how he can request that one.

Stick two t-posts in the ground and run a chain across the road with a padlock on it. Even if they can walk around it you've made your intention clear to any LEO that you don't want them or any other un-invited people going past that point. I would also hang a sign on it that said "private property".

Honestly it sounds like there is more to this story than what we are getting. I'm not saying that you're holding back but it just seems like something else is going on here. Just my opinion.

If it were me and I didn't want to hire a lawyer I'd try to speak with the sheriff. In a polite way I'd request a meeting and then respectively ask why he keeps wasting county resources responding to these calls. No matter what he says I'd point out that I have put up a gate and that it is locked and that I do not want any deputy crossing on to my property without probable cause or a warrant. Of course I'd do this in the most tactful and polite way I could. If he won't see you send a certified letter with signature confirmation that you have signed and had notarized. Ask him to please add that you do not wosh to have law enforcement on your property without your consent and that they can add your number to the call notes for your address. If there is an issue you can meet them at the gate. Maybe send the same thing to the fire marshal and include a statement that you are in no way a business.

I'm no expert, but I did work in law enforcement long enough to know that if I have no probable cause to enter what I know is private property, and I've been told I do not have consent to do so, I can't enter.

My theory is that your neighbor would probably say he is "ok with you shooting a little but" but he probably thinks you're shooting excessively. I completely understand what you're doing and support it. But I could see how twenty people on a 10 acres, shooting up to a .50 cal, and another group shooting skeet, could seem excessive. But it's still your place and from what you're saying you're not breaking any laws.

If all else fails you may be able to get the local news on your side. Sheriffs are elected.

There is something fishy that is going on because before the sheriffs would come out, they would make sure everything was legit, then leave. But this time something changed after the sheriff went and talked to the neighbor. The neighbor has always been saying that he hears rounds going by his house. Which is theoritically impossible as the round would have to make a 110degree turn go up and over the berm then the hill and travel for another 300yrds. When we shoot, shoot at the berm or targets on the ground, i.e. soda cans... etc.

The main things we have out there are ARs, AKs, and handguns. The .50 was the first time out there, and was only shot twice. When we did have tannerite the sheriffes really didnt care.

So, like you I am too wondering what else the neighbor said. People can say anything, but I do know the FM(fire marshal) thinks we are running a paying range. Not sure how that came about.

Greg makes me think of another question....never having any experience at all with a Fire Marshall, is that a hired position or an elected position? I'm guessing since it's "Marshall" it's hired. but who does he report to? Maybe it's time to talk to that person and let them know he's trying to turn a party into a business.

I do like Greg's idea of just string some chain and a lock across your entry, it would at least get the point across. When we lived out in Williamson Co we had two huge poles and a metal gate, it wasn't attached to anything, you could walk around it, but you couldn't drive around it, and it wasn't locked, but it had a no trespass sign and it got the point across. well, that and the bumpy 80 degree hill. I do still miss that spot.

He is hired, the elected Sheriff, Terry Box, said that we need to talk to the fire marshal. Not sure whom, elected offical, would be over the fire marshal?

Stating the obvious, it is critical to make sure no bullets or shot cross the property line.

In the past the neighbor has claimed that bullets are wizzing by him. First, "anything" is possible and I understand the LEO position of making sure there is no doubt involved with a stray bullet. Nobody wants to shoot or get shot. This is why we went ahead and made a nice big berm. This last sat. the cop said he heard a round. I'm not sure how this is possible.

If there is somebody that wouldnt mind coming and taking a look at what we have to see if we can do more to stop stray bullets I'm all for it. I dont think we have any going out of our land.
There are people all around us that shoot as well, the Sheriff told me that most just put up plywood and shoot into the woods. When the cops where there that day there were others in the "neighborhood" shooting as well.

I want to be safe, I do not want even the slightest chance that a round can leave my property.

Do you know if you neighbor has owned that same piece of property they are on for a long time? The reason I ask is this...I lived my teenage years in South Texas. Those that lived "out in the brush" the longest, tended to hold sway with the local law enforcement at a higher rate than others who had lived there less time. It was simply a matter of familiarity to some degree, and if its true in this case, might lead the law enforcement types to tend to believe your neighbor.

We have been out there longer than he has. When we first moved there, it was a new area, with lake view properties and mobile homes everywhere. The neighbor bought the land from an old old man that has since passed. He built a really nice expensive home and, has told my parents, that he is trying to run the riff raft out and get nicer homes put in, in the area.


Hopefully I've answered the questions. I'm kind of thinking of letting this die down and then bring it up with the Marshal later.

[TeXJ]

One thing I'm leary of is getting arrested and then loosing my CHL. I do not want to do anything that might make it so that I loose that priviledge.

[C-dub]

Just spit-balling of course and if you've already done this and I missed it I apologize. I wonder if inviting this complainer over to see your setup and talk about what you have done to make it as safe as possible that might help him realize these shots they think are whizzing by their head might not be coming from you and your friends and family.

[TeXJ]

Just spit-balling of course and if you've already done this and I missed it I apologize. I wonder if inviting this complainer over to see your setup and talk about what you have done to make it as safe as possible that might help him realize these shots they think are whizzing by their head might not be coming from you and your friends and family.

We've offered. I think the real problem is he just wants to control what we do with our land. I mean we are rarely out there shooting as it is.

[suthdj]

has told my parents, that he is trying to run the riff raft out and get nicer homes put in

Is he a land developer or just a snob?

[bizarrenormality]

NO TRESPASSING signs and a gate or chain sound like cheap insurance. Maybe hide a game camera if you think the neighbor is trespassing.

[TeXJ]

snob.