Fire Marshal making up "laws"

[Keith B]

TeXJ: google "crazy lady gun range" (warning: it will most likely come up showing AR15.com and some profanity on the thread)...here's a clean version on this forum:

viewtopic.php?f=10&t=16951" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Thanks that feels all too familiar. :(


Update: my dad went and talked with the fire marshal today in an hour meeting. Basically the fire marshal thinks we are a business and wants us to go through the hoopla that involves, $500k in insurance, engineering work,.... The Fire Marshal also said that we cannot have 20 people that at a time. Excuse me?! I thought this was America, where if a land owner can enjoy his freedoms and not have somebody making up laws/rules out of a whim.

So would the NRA be interested in helping, or even the 2nd Amendment foundation?

My suggestion is you follow Chalres recommendaiton on club formaiton. This is the only way you are gonna get any proteciton.

[E.Marquez]

TeXJ: google "crazy lady gun range" (warning: it will most likely come up showing AR15.com and some profanity on the thread)...here's a clean version on this forum:

viewtopic.php?f=10&t=16951" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Thanks that feels all too familiar. :(


Update: my dad went and talked with the fire marshal today in an hour meeting. Basically the fire marshal thinks we are a business and wants us to go through the hoopla that involves, $500k in insurance, engineering work,.... The Fire Marshal also said that we cannot have 20 people that at a time. Excuse me?! I thought this was America, where if a land owner can enjoy his freedoms and not have somebody making up laws/rules out of a whim.

So would the NRA be interested in helping, or even the 2nd Amendment foundation?

http://www.statutes.legis.state.tx.us/D ... m/BO.1.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
BUSINESS ORGANIZATIONS CODE

TITLE 1. GENERAL PROVISIONS

CHAPTER 1. DEFINITIONS AND OTHER GENERAL PROVISIONS

SUBCHAPTER A. DEFINITIONS AND PURPOSE

(5) "Business" means a trade, occupation, profession, or other commercial activity.

Do v trade anything with you for the privilege to shoot?
Is running a range your occupation, profession?
Do the people you invite over to shoot pay you in cash or credit for the privilege to shoot?

If you can answer no, it looks as if it is not a Business.. Perhaps ask the fire Marshal, to cite the law or code he believes makes what your doing a business? Or ask him to describe what he has observed you doing that in his opinion makes it a Business?

[TeXJ]

This is it almost done: (I'm 5'10" so the berm is about 11ft high here)


This is how we were shooting. Notice not everybody is shooting, we were taking turns.

[mojo84]

I say continue doing what you do and don't worry about it until he cites you or tries to press some kind of charges. Then you have something to fight over. Also may want to put a lock on your gate if you have one.

The neighbor may be friends with the fire marshal and is getting him to pressure you or he has convinced him you are running a business. I would also press him to provide you with details of what makes him suspect you are running a business.

Or, you could contact a good lawyer and let him/her check into it.

[TeXJ]

TeXJ: google "crazy lady gun range" (warning: it will most likely come up showing AR15.com and some profanity on the thread)...here's a clean version on this forum:

viewtopic.php?f=10&t=16951" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Thanks that feels all too familiar. :(


Update: my dad went and talked with the fire marshal today in an hour meeting. Basically the fire marshal thinks we are a business and wants us to go through the hoopla that involves, $500k in insurance, engineering work,.... The Fire Marshal also said that we cannot have 20 people that at a time. Excuse me?! I thought this was America, where if a land owner can enjoy his freedoms and not have somebody making up laws/rules out of a whim.

So would the NRA be interested in helping, or even the 2nd Amendment foundation?

http://www.statutes.legis.state.tx.us/D ... m/BO.1.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
BUSINESS ORGANIZATIONS CODE

TITLE 1. GENERAL PROVISIONS

CHAPTER 1. DEFINITIONS AND OTHER GENERAL PROVISIONS

SUBCHAPTER A. DEFINITIONS AND PURPOSE

(5) "Business" means a trade, occupation, profession, or other commercial activity.

Do v trade anything with you for the privilege to shoot?
Is running a range your occupation, profession?
Do the people you invite over to shoot pay you in cash or credit for the privilege to shoot?

If you can answer no, it looks as if it is not a Business.. Perhaps ask the fire Marshal, to cite the law or code he believes makes what your doing a business? Or ask him to describe what he has observed you doing that in his opinion makes it a Business?

This last sat is the first time that we took donations. My friends offered to pay and were not forced to pay to be there.
I work in IT. I wish I had an occupation that I could go to the gun range everyday
In the past year or so, friends would come and shoot and they would offer me a soda or something, or even to shoot a mag out of their gun. But was not forced and they were offering.

[TeXJ]

My suggestion is you follow Chalres recommendaiton on club formaiton. This is the only way you are gonna get any proteciton.

From what I was understanding, I know not that great , That if I did do a club, then that would constitute us having to follow the same laws as a business, right?

[TeXJ]

I say continue doing what you do and don't worry about it until he cites you or tries to press some kind of charges. Then you have something to fight over. Also may want to put a lock on your gate if you have one.

The neighbor may be friends with the fire marshal and is getting him to pressure you or he has convinced him you are running a business. I would also press him to provide you with details of what makes him suspect you are running a business.

Or, you could contact a good lawyer and let him/her check into it.

I dont think I can afford a lawyer. We do not have a gate, we are the last piece of property on a single dirt road. The Sheriffes that were out there said that if anybody had a FFL they were going to jail. Still do not understand how that would have worked out.

Kind of wondering if it is worth trying to grab this tiger by the tail.

[K.Mooneyham]

I say continue doing what you do and don't worry about it until he cites you or tries to press some kind of charges. Then you have something to fight over. Also may want to put a lock on your gate if you have one.

The neighbor may be friends with the fire marshal and is getting him to pressure you or he has convinced him you are running a business. I would also press him to provide you with details of what makes him suspect you are running a business.

Or, you could contact a good lawyer and let him/her check into it.

I dont think I can afford a lawyer. We do not have a gate, we are the last piece of property on a single dirt road. The Sheriffes that were out there said that if anybody had a FFL they were going to jail. Still do not understand how that would have worked out.

Kind of wondering if it is worth trying to grab this tiger by the tail.

Okay, now I'm confused. What did it matter if someone had an FFL or not?

[TeXJ]

I say continue doing what you do and don't worry about it until he cites you or tries to press some kind of charges. Then you have something to fight over. Also may want to put a lock on your gate if you have one.

The neighbor may be friends with the fire marshal and is getting him to pressure you or he has convinced him you are running a business. I would also press him to provide you with details of what makes him suspect you are running a business.

Or, you could contact a good lawyer and let him/her check into it.

I dont think I can afford a lawyer. We do not have a gate, we are the last piece of property on a single dirt road. The Sheriffes that were out there said that if anybody had a FFL they were going to jail. Still do not understand how that would have worked out.

Kind of wondering if it is worth trying to grab this tiger by the tail.

Okay, now I'm confused. What did it matter if someone had an FFL or not?

You got me! The demeanor of the sheriffs definitely changed when they came back. Not real sure why. I wish I had been there to tell, I had my friends that were there texting me and telling me what was going on. My dad was there at first, and asked if it was ok if he left. My sister stayed there. The land is in a trust with all of my immediate family as owners.

[priusron]

Does anyone live on the property? If not that may be the problem. Put a small rv there and spend weekends there. I would continue to shoot and let them cite me. Then you have something to fight. You cant fight opinions. Keep the gate locked even when you are there. Do your talking outside the gate. Make sure you do not give them permission to come onto the property.

[TeXJ]

Does anyone live on the property? If not that may be the problem. Put a small rv there and spend weekends there. I would continue to shoot and let them cite me. Then you have something to fight. You cant fight opinions. Keep the gate locked even when you are there. Do your talking outside the gate. Make sure you do not give them permission to come onto the property.

There is a guy, he helps my dad, that does live on the property, no gate. There are posts where the gate used to be, but no gate.

[FishInTx]

Sorry for the strife in your life!! Hope your situation gets resloved soon. Mine is somewhat better.

About a year ago my neighbor said 2 of my cows came on his place(community fence), ate a bunch of hay and seduced his bull. To call it even I needed to pay him $400 or give him a calf of his choice. I said, "I wasn't going to do that, how about I pay you for the hay and a little extra for your trouble"? He refused and started shooting (at a target, not at me) everytime I'd go outside. We live outside the city limits. Scared me to death the first few times not knowing he was going to start shooting.
Well... I decided to build my own gun range. I'm not saying I go shoot when he's out or invite a bunch of friends over to shoot when he's out but he's been a little less trigger happy lately. Takes more than a fence to make a good neighbor. With the ammo shortage neither of us have been doing much shooting lately.

[SewTexas]

TeXJ: google "crazy lady gun range" (warning: it will most likely come up showing AR15.com and some profanity on the thread)...here's a clean version on this forum:

viewtopic.php?f=10&t=16951" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Thanks that feels all too familiar. :(


Update: my dad went and talked with the fire marshal today in an hour meeting. Basically the fire marshal thinks we are a business and wants us to go through the hoopla that involves, $500k in insurance, engineering work,.... The Fire Marshal also said that we cannot have 20 people that at a time. Excuse me?! I thought this was America, where if a land owner can enjoy his freedoms and not have somebody making up laws/rules out of a whim.

So would the NRA be interested in helping, or even the 2nd Amendment foundation?

what right does the Fire Marshall have to say that you are a business? do you call yourself by a special name? do you charge? just because your friends gave you a donation doesn't mean squat! when I host a soap-making session and my friends give me a donation to help cover expenses that doesn't mean I'm a business....yet (maybe sometime) sounds like your local Fire Marshall is on a power trip

[gregthehand]

Stick two t-posts in the ground and run a chain across the road with a padlock on it. Even if they can walk around it you've made your intention clear to any LEO that you don't want them or any other un-invited people going past that point. I would also hang a sign on it that said "private property".

Honestly it sounds like there is more to this story than what we are getting. I'm not saying that you're holding back but it just seems like something else is going on here. Just my opinion.

If it were me and I didn't want to hire a lawyer I'd try to speak with the sheriff. In a polite way I'd request a meeting and then respectively ask why he keeps wasting county resources responding to these calls. No matter what he says I'd point out that I have put up a gate and that it is locked and that I do not want any deputy crossing on to my property without probable cause or a warrant. Of course I'd do this in the most tactful and polite way I could. If he won't see you send a certified letter with signature confirmation that you have signed and had notarized. Ask him to please add that you do not wosh to have law enforcement on your property without your consent and that they can add your number to the call notes for your address. If there is an issue you can meet them at the gate. Maybe send the same thing to the fire marshal and include a statement that you are in no way a business.

I'm no expert, but I did work in law enforcement long enough to know that if I have no probable cause to enter what I know is private property, and I've been told I do not have consent to do so, I can't enter.

My theory is that your neighbor would probably say he is "ok with you shooting a little but" but he probably thinks you're shooting excessively. I completely understand what you're doing and support it. But I could see how twenty people on a 10 acres, shooting up to a .50 cal, and another group shooting skeet, could seem excessive. But it's still your place and from what you're saying you're not breaking any laws.

If all else fails you may be able to get the local news on your side. Sheriffs are elected.

[SewTexas]

Greg makes me think of another question....never having any experience at all with a Fire Marshall, is that a hired position or an elected position? I'm guessing since it's "Marshall" it's hired. but who does he report to? Maybe it's time to talk to that person and let them know he's trying to turn a party into a business.

I do like Greg's idea of just string some chain and a lock across your entry, it would at least get the point across. When we lived out in Williamson Co we had two huge poles and a metal gate, it wasn't attached to anything, you could walk around it, but you couldn't drive around it, and it wasn't locked, but it had a no trespass sign and it got the point across. well, that and the bumpy 80 degree hill. I do still miss that spot.