OC v CHL

[baseballguy2001]

I've been lurking a bit, reading the posts about the recent legislative session. Educate me: if one of the current OC bills pass, and become law, then will CHLs be threatened by new signage that bans all carry, without the specific 30.06 rules that is current law now? Additionally, campus carry could be threatened for the same reason? So, Side A says, lets get campus concealed carry, relax some of the places where CHL's are now prohibited, and work on OC later. Side B says, the sign issue is bogus, 30.06 doesn't pertain to open carriers, the sign law will be the same, lets get licensed open carry passed. Do I have the arguments even close?? My .02 - campus carry should be a low priority. Campus crime is a concern, but I honestly don't think there is much demand for it. Besides, honestly, in my case, I wasn't responsible enough to carry, open or concealed in my college days. I never got in trouble, but came close a few times. The option to Open Carry on a hot day is tempting. I carry all the time, but those brutal August days we all know are tough. So what's wrong with a licensed open carry? Law enforcement will know open carriers have had background checks, training, and the good history that CHLs have had since '95. Like I said, educate me.

[K.Mooneyham]

I've been lurking a bit, reading the posts about the recent legislative session. Educate me: if one of the current OC bills pass, and become law, then will CHLs be threatened by new signage that bans all carry, without the specific 30.06 rules that is current law now? Additionally, campus carry could be threatened for the same reason? So, Side A says, lets get campus concealed carry, relax some of the places where CHL's are now prohibited, and work on OC later. Side B says, the sign issue is bogus, 30.06 doesn't pertain to open carriers, the sign law will be the same, lets get licensed open carry passed. Do I have the arguments even close?? My .02 - campus carry should be a low priority. Campus crime is a concern, but I honestly don't think there is much demand for it. Besides, honestly, in my case, I wasn't responsible enough to carry, open or concealed in my college days. I never got in trouble, but came close a few times. The option to Open Carry on a hot day is tempting. I carry all the time, but those brutal August days we all know are tough. So what's wrong with a licensed open carry? Law enforcement will know open carriers have had background checks, training, and the good history that CHLs have had since '95. Like I said, educate me.

How old are a LOT of college students? Under 21 years of age. They won't be getting CHLs. Next thing, how many of the remaining college students would spend the money and take the time to go through the class and fill out the paperwork to get one? A small number. Its not like every wild and crazy college "frat boy" (or girl) will be "packing heat". That argument is fairly invalid. The intent of campus carry is many fold, but one thing it does is give people who are able to the OPTION to defend themselves in those areas like they would in so many other places. Additionally, bad guys will come to know that some folks will be carrying firearms. They MIGHT know who, but the odds are against it. Thus, instead of simply attacking anyone with impunity, they are then forced to think that their target may indeed fight back, or that someone in the vicinity may defend their target. Crime is thus reduced and people become safer. There is much to commend about campus carry. Others will add more, I'm sure.

[baldeagle]

You might not think campus carry is important, but I do. I work on a campus. Women do. They get raped on campuses. They at least deserve to have options. And remember, only students 21 and over would be able to get CHLs anyway, so the vast majority of undergraduates would be excluded.

The argument about the signs is that if OC is passed, since the legislature will not pass a separate sign for OC (requiring businesses to post two signs), more businesses will put up 30.06 signs when they see people openly carrying weapons into their business. I don't believe there will be licensed OC though. Under the proposed bill you would have to get a CHL, and then you would be able to OC as well.

[77346]

there are a lot of non-traditional students attending classes or events at college campuses. for example, Lone Star College system (North Harris and Montgomery counties) offer a lot of professional classes, continuing education, and also attract older students. most master-level and phd students are way over 21...

perhaps the under-21 argument is true for institutions such as Texas A&M, UT, Texas State, Texas Tech, but let's know underestimate the number of people that may carry on campus...

[RX8er]

Wait, I'm confused... I thought colleges had safe zones that BG won't enter. And if a BG stumbles in to one by accident, then the student can whistle to remind him. If the BG is deaf, then the student can use a call box to call security.

I'm sorry for my sarcasm to an otherwise legit question. Campus carry would give the students that are eligible an opportunity to carry and as others have said, the BG won't really know who is or who isn't armed.

In regards to your other question, I don't want the possibility that any private citizen can put up 1 and only 1 sign to cover both open and conceal carry. I can see a lot of places that would want to put up an open carry "NOT" sign and I don't want the risk for conceal carry "NOT" as well in the same sign.

[RPBrown]

I do a lot of work for several colleges and junior colleges in the area, most of which is done at night so as not to disrupt classes. I do not like being unarmed while there. I also still have 1 daughter attending college (thank goodness its the last of 5 kids) and dont like to be unarmed when I visit her dorm.

So you see there is much more at stake than just the students. Its teachers, workers, visitors, etc.

[txmatt]

So you see there is much more at stake than just the students. Its teachers, workers, visitors, etc.

This, allowing campus carry affects relatively few undergraduate students while being a huge help to thousands of staff and non-traditional students.

I personally would like to see both OC (with signage issues fixed) and campus carry passed this time around, as I support and would benefit from both.

[SewTexas]

kids are waiting a year, sometimes two before entering college, often working during that time so they can pay for college (ever looked at those bills??? ) so yeh, there are alot of 21 year olds on college campuses....and I'm actually tired of hearing there aren't, I know quite a few who are 21 or over and who would like to be able to protect themselves.

[LSUTiger]

Campus carry is necessary. For teachers and faculty, graduate students, parents and everyother law abiding responsible citizen who works, attends or otherwise has legitimate business on the university property. Remember Virginia Tech? The need to be able to defend your self is not restricted to off campus.

Just because it doesnt affect you doesnt mean its not needed. When I go to visit my daughters at college I want to be able to carry and I want them to be able to carry.

[C-dub]

There are two probably issues with licensed OC. One is that there will undoubtedly be someone that will do it without a license either not knowing that a license is needed or that they are just trying to get away with it. The second problem that highlights the problem with the first one I've described is that just because someone is openly carrying does not necessarily mean that the have a license and the police cannot assume that this is the case. That person openly carrying most likely will be licensed, but how would an officer know this without checking. If OC does pass and IF I do OC I will expect a visit from at least one officer. If that ever does happen I will be polite and cooperate with the officers and not cause them any more stress than they will already be under by being upset that they are questioning me. Since I personally know a couple of the officers in my city I may even discuss it with them and learn the department's policy and how they intend to handle the inevitable MWAG calls and what I should do. That kind of preemptive contact may help to make us all a little more relaxed when they see it is me when they arrive. IDK, though, there are some big IF's in there.

[bizarrenormality]

I've been lurking a bit, reading the posts about the recent legislative session. Educate me: if one of the current OC bills pass, and become law, then will CHLs be threatened by new signage that bans all carry, without the specific 30.06 rules that is current law now?

No. Some proposals would make the big ugly sign apply to CC and OC handguns. Some proposals would leave the big ugly sign for CC handguns only, and have "no guns" signs apply to OC handguns, rifles, and shotguns and CC rifles and shotguns. I don't know any bills that would repeal 30.06 and the related clause in 30.05 unless Burnam filed one.

[Dad24GreatKids]

There are two probably issues with licensed OC. One is that there will undoubtedly be someone that will do it without a license either not knowing that a license is needed or that they are just trying to get away with it. The second problem that highlights the problem with the first one I've described is that just because someone is openly carrying does not necessarily mean that the have a license and the police cannot assume that this is the case. That person openly carrying most likely will be licensed, but how would an officer know this without checking.

Maybe everyone should be issued an OC badge!

Edited to Add: Just read C-dub suggesting this same thing in another thread... Guess I'm a bit late to the party...

[C-dub]

There are two probably issues with licensed OC. One is that there will undoubtedly be someone that will do it without a license either not knowing that a license is needed or that they are just trying to get away with it. The second problem that highlights the problem with the first one I've described is that just because someone is openly carrying does not necessarily mean that the have a license and the police cannot assume that this is the case. That person openly carrying most likely will be licensed, but how would an officer know this without checking.

Maybe everyone should be issued an OC badge!

Edited to Add: Just read C-dub suggesting this same thing in another thread... Guess I'm a bit late to the party...

It was also in jest. I would never seriously suggest or advise such an action. Check this thread out. viewtopic.php?f=26&t=60399" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[baseballguy2001]

Great replies everybody. The wife was out of town and I had to pick her up at DFW. While waiting for her, I read the posts here, good points, but I have a question. If you had a choice this session, and only one bill could get passed, which would you choose? Respectfully, I still view Campus Carry as a low priority mission. Many more people would be positively affected by a well crafted Open Carry bill. Campus Carry can wait. I do think the legal framework should be a CHL has the option, no CHL, no open carry. Ok, let me have it!

[snatchel]

I look at it like this:

If open carry fails, nothing really changes. I can still carry concealed--unless i'm on a campus. While I don't gain anything, I certainly don't lose anything.

If campus carry fails, nothing really changes. I can still carry concealed--unless i'm on a campus. I don't gain anything, but I lose the option to carry when i'm on campus.

I'm trying to look at the bigger picture. Campus carry affects more people personally, myself included. As much as I would love to open carry at times, i'd rather be able to concealed carry on campus all the time.