Fire Marshal making up "laws"

[Charles L. Cotton]

How many acres of land do you own? Have a look at Tex. Local Gov't Code §§235.022 and Chp. 236. From what you wrote, it doesn't look like you would be a "sport shooting range" covered in Chp. 236.

Chas.

[E.Marquez]

Seems the starting point is a polite discussion with the Fire Marshall, asking, you know for your edification.. What statute / law you were /are violating? What ordinance is he citing that you are in violation of?

[puma guy]

How many acres of land do you own? Have a look at Tex. Local Gov't Code §§235.022 and Chp. 236. From what you wrote, it doesn't look like you would be a "sport shooting range" covered in Chp. 236.

Chas.

Wouldn't it be necessary for the county to have passed an ordinance relating to shooting on less than ten acres not just the say so of LEO or Fire Marshall? I would doubt there is an ordinance stating only property owners and family can shoot. Even in Harris County a property owner can give written permission for any one to shoot on their land. It has to be dated and signed for each day I believe. Same for Bexar Co I think.

[srothstein]

You also need to look at Chapter 250 of the Local Government Code. Note that the definition of a private club is a range where more than 20 different individuals shoot during one year. It does not have to have any fees involved. I don't think 250.001 would give them any authority to harass you, but you would really need to look at the local ordinances also.

It gets confusing because I started with chapter 235, then went to 236, like Charles did. I just was curious about the definitions and authorities related to sport ranges, so I looked at 250 where it defines them also.

[brentski]

Like they said find out the code they are referring to and have a good lawyer write the Fire Marshall to put them on notice. Not sure, but I believe Fire Marshall's have the same authority to arrest as a peace office does since they do investigations so always be gracious and polite. Then decide if you should consider an harassment suit.
http://www.lawguru.com/legal-questions/ ... 76556585/a

[Charles L. Cotton]

How many acres of land do you own? Have a look at Tex. Local Gov't Code §§235.022 and Chp. 236. From what you wrote, it doesn't look like you would be a "sport shooting range" covered in Chp. 236.

Chas.

Wouldn't it be necessary for the county to have passed an ordinance relating to shooting on less than ten acres not just the say so of LEO or Fire Marshall? I would doubt there is an ordinance stating only property owners and family can shoot. Even in Harris County a property owner can give written permission for any one to shoot on their land. It has to be dated and signed for each day I believe. Same for Bexar Co I think.

Yes, the code sections I quoted give limited authority to regulate shooting on private property, but the county would still have to pass ordinances.

Chas.

[TeXJ]

TeXJ:

I trust you'll be having a TX CHL Shoot at your property in the *very* near future!

I want to but dont want to cause anybody to go to jail like they were telling my friends.

[puma guy]

TeXJ:

I trust you'll be having a TX CHL Shoot at your property in the *very* near future!

I want to but dont want to cause anybody to go to jail like they were telling my friends.

Have you considered meeting with your neighbor to discuss his/her concerns or even maybe inviting them over to shoot?

[Charles L. Cotton]

Section 250.001(1) defines "sport shooting ranges" as a business, club or association. If the range isn't a business, but is operating as a club or association, Section 250.001(2) requires that at least 20 different people shoot at the range annually. We had to add the 20 person requirement to last session's SB766 (Range Protection Bill) in order to pass the bill. There was a concern that every property owner would claim to be a "shooting club" even if it wasn't actually a range.

Unless the property in question is being operated as a "sport shooting range," then having 20 people shoot there annually won't help.

Chas.

[TeXJ]

TeXJ:

I trust you'll be having a TX CHL Shoot at your property in the *very* near future!

I want to but dont want to cause anybody to go to jail like they were telling my friends.

Have you considered meeting with your neighbor to discuss his/her concerns or even maybe inviting them over to shoot?

Yeah we have another neighbor and have talked to them and told them they can come whenever they'd like. This particular neighbor is an affluent individual that calls my dad to tell him that he called the cops. My dad goes over there and has tried to reason with him and extend the olive branch to no avail. The guy told my dad that his ex father-in-law is a lawyer and that he knows how to get us to stop.

I'd love to have people come and shoot and enjoy themselves, but every time we have friends over, the cops show up. They see we are not some hill billies and we are shooting responsibly they leave and we dont hear from them till the next time.

[TeXJ]

Section 250.001(1) defines "sport shooting ranges" as a business, club or association. If the range isn't a business, but is operating as a club or association, Section 250.001(2) requires that at least 20 different people shoot at the range annually. We had to add the 20 person requirement to last session's SB766 (Range Protection Bill) in order to pass the bill. There was a concern that every property owner would claim to be a "shooting club" even if it wasn't actually a range.

Unless the property in question is being operated as a "sport shooting range," then having 20 people shoot there annually won't help.

Chas.

Let me see if I'm understanding; if I have more than 20 people annually then this is deemed a "sport shooting range"? And then they, fire marshal, can deem this as a business?

[Charles L. Cotton]

Section 250.001(1) defines "sport shooting ranges" as a business, club or association. If the range isn't a business, but is operating as a club or association, Section 250.001(2) requires that at least 20 different people shoot at the range annually. We had to add the 20 person requirement to last session's SB766 (Range Protection Bill) in order to pass the bill. There was a concern that every property owner would claim to be a "shooting club" even if it wasn't actually a range.

Unless the property in question is being operated as a "sport shooting range," then having 20 people shoot there annually won't help.

Chas.

Let me see if I'm understanding; if I have more than 20 people annually then this is deemed a "sport shooting range"? And then they, fire marshal, can deem this as a business?

No, that's not the case. Merely having 20 or more people shoot on your real estate annually does not make your land a "sport shooting range." If you are 1) operating a "sport shooting range" as defined in Tex. Local Gov't Code Section 250.001; and 2) you are operating it as a club or association, then you must have a minimum of 20 different people shoot there annually.

None of this matters if you have 10 acres or less. How much land do you own?

Chas.

[SewTexas]

well, is it that you can't call it a club unless you have more than 20 people, but it doesn't even have to be a business and "they" can call you a club if you have more than 20 people.....hey, wait a minute, how do "they" know if he has more than 20 people there in a year? he doesn't have a list! this is crazy and it's making my head hurt, the only thing I'm understanding from it for sure is that we can't have a get together at his house and texJ has a REALLY big family

[TeXJ]

Section 250.001(1) defines "sport shooting ranges" as a business, club or association. If the range isn't a business, but is operating as a club or association, Section 250.001(2) requires that at least 20 different people shoot at the range annually. We had to add the 20 person requirement to last session's SB766 (Range Protection Bill) in order to pass the bill. There was a concern that every property owner would claim to be a "shooting club" even if it wasn't actually a range.

Unless the property in question is being operated as a "sport shooting range," then having 20 people shoot there annually won't help.

Chas.

Let me see if I'm understanding; if I have more than 20 people annually then this is deemed a "sport shooting range"? And then they, fire marshal, can deem this as a business?

No, that's not the case. Merely having 20 or more people shoot on your real estate annually does not make your land a "sport shooting range." If you are 1) operating a "sport shooting range" as defined in Tex. Local Gov't Code Section 250.001; and 2) you are operating it as a club or association, then you must have a minimum of 20 different people shoot there annually.

None of this matters if you have 10 acres or less. How much land do you own?

Chas.

Thank you for helping me understand. :D

We own 9.999 acres. But we have been told this doesn't matter because the land is not in a subdivision. I think that is how they said that. So I'm lost as to what this all means.

[TeXJ]

well, is it that you can't call it a club unless you have more than 20 people, but it doesn't even have to be a business and "they" can call you a club if you have more than 20 people.....hey, wait a minute, how do "they" know if he has more than 20 people there in a year? he doesn't have a list! this is crazy and it's making my head hurt, the only thing I'm understanding from it for sure is that we can't have a get together at his house and texJ has a REALLY big family

I know right :D. Big families are fun.