MT shooting video

[Excaliber]

With the clarity that comes on Monday morning, here are my observations:

1. After the incident the officer stated that he noticed the driver reach out and adjust his mirror to see him better, and that he had never seen that on a stop before. He had enough experience to know that there was something unusual going on here and should have recognized that would make approaching alone a bad idea. It should have been the indicator to call for backup before approaching the vehicle and managing it as a high risk stop. I'm sure he recognized this in retrospect.

2. Shining the light in the suspect's face may have saved his life by impairing the driver's vision.

3. While there is a great temptation to empty the magazine under these circumstances, disciplined aimed fire is a better tactic for stopping the suspect and greatly reduces the risk of injuring or killing innocent persons in the area. Fortunately "spray and pray" worked out OK here. It didn't work out so well at the Empire State Building shooting in NYC, with a final hit count of 1 bad guy and 9 good guys.

4. The officer recovered quickly enough to load his rifle and approach the suspect's vehicle again in an attempt to make sure he didn't escape and endanger innocent persons in the neighborhood. That took courage and a remarkable amount of self control.

[Ericstac]

Here it is if you are on an ad and couldn't see it in the link above

[youtube][/youtube]

[texanjoker]

Very Lucky. He made an approach to the vehicle that was EXTREMELY SLOPPY. I hope his sergeant, lieutenant and captain all chewed him out severely for that bit of stupidity.

My guess is nothing they can say will have the impact the incident did. Seems like a real learning experience.
Not being a trained officer, my opinion is certainly suspect. However he did seem somewhat complacent. Also, it looked to me as though he didn't respond after the first shock of seeing the gun. The pistol appears in the driver window, the offices utter an expletive and jumps back, but then stands there for several seconds until the first shot is fired.
Once he did go into battle mode though, he was clearly effective. I was surprised as the van continued to drive away. It looked to me as though he was dead on target with most of his rounds and I wouldn't think there would be much left of the driver's head.

Not sure I agree. This officer conducted a simple traffic stop or what the media calls a "routine" stop. This was not a high risk stop. The officers patrol car is properly parked in an off set manner to protect him from traffic. He then approached the car from the driver's side. The only tactical mistake I saw was putting the flashlight in his gun hand at the car. You always keep your gun hand empty. He then reacted by raising the flashlight to block the gun and got out the line of fire and returned fire. He was not hit and went home. That works for me . I would bet his gun hand is empty in the future.

Regarding another post. It is actually quite normal for a person to adjust their mirrors. The driver's adjust the mirrors to see you and also to get the light out of their eyes. If you do a proper stop at night, your spot, hi beems and take down lights are on. This is done to give you a tactical advantage as you approach, and provide more lighting in the car. The driver's are often surprised when you knock on their window.

[Excaliber]

Very Lucky. He made an approach to the vehicle that was EXTREMELY SLOPPY. I hope his sergeant, lieutenant and captain all chewed him out severely for that bit of stupidity.

My guess is nothing they can say will have the impact the incident did. Seems like a real learning experience.
Not being a trained officer, my opinion is certainly suspect. However he did seem somewhat complacent. Also, it looked to me as though he didn't respond after the first shock of seeing the gun. The pistol appears in the driver window, the offices utter an expletive and jumps back, but then stands there for several seconds until the first shot is fired.
Once he did go into battle mode though, he was clearly effective. I was surprised as the van continued to drive away. It looked to me as though he was dead on target with most of his rounds and I wouldn't think there would be much left of the driver's head.

Not sure I agree. This officer conducted a simple traffic stop or what the media calls a "routine" stop. This was not a high risk stop. The officers patrol car is properly parked in an off set manner to protect him from traffic. He then approached the car from the driver's side. The only tactical mistake I saw was putting the flashlight in his gun hand at the car. You always keep your gun hand empty. He then reacted by raising the flashlight to block the gun and got out the line of fire and returned fire. He was not hit and went home. That works for me . I would bet his gun hand is empty in the future.

Regarding another post. It is actually quite normal for a person to adjust their mirrors. The driver's adjust the mirrors to see you and also to get the light out of their eyes. If you do a proper stop at night, your spot, hi beems and take down lights are on. This is done to give you a tactical advantage as you approach, and provide more lighting in the car. The driver's are often surprised when you knock on their window.

Despite the media's ignorance, there is no such thing as a "routine stop." This one started out as an "unknown risk" stop that escalated with a suspicious action followed by a murderous attack.

I'm aware of the tactical reasons for directing lots of high intensity light at the driver. I've taught that course. The primary purpose of the tactic is to make it difficult for a driver to precisely monitor the officer's approach by overwhelming his vision with a wall of light.

I would agree that adjustment of mirrors is not unusual when the driver moves the mirror in a manner that gets the spotlight out of his eyes. That's not what happened in this instance, and the incongruity was immediately recognized by the veteran officer. The Missoulian article cited byTXPPQ below stated:

"Jessop activated his spotlight, then saw something he'd never before seen during a traffic stop: Davis reached out and slowly adjusted his mirror so he could see the officer.

"That's very unusual," Jessop testified. "Our spotlights are very bright and they hurt your eyes."

Most people immediately turn their mirrors so the light is reflected away from their face, he said."

Since the light comes from directly behind the officer, there is no way for a driver to adjust the mirrors to both redirect the light away from his eyes and watch the officer's approach at the same time. Simple violators know the officer is approaching, and it doesn't matter to them just how he does it. On the other hand, that information is very important to someone who is planning an attack, and a mirror adjustment to track the officer despite the severe discomfort caused by the intense light is a very bad sign indeed.

The officer did make a second tactical mistake by positioning himself direct adjacent to the driver's door instead of standing just behind it during he interview. The latter position protects the officer from being knocked off balance by a driver who forcibly opens the door, and compels someone who wants to shoot him to first twist the body sharply around. This is a pretty clear cue that things are not going well. The resulting unusual and uncomfortable position makes it very difficult to use the sights or deliver accurate fire. Use of this tactic has intimidated some BG's into not making their planned move at all, and has saved many an officer from premature death.

The other lessons to be learned here are that few encounters are totally error free on either side (note the first hammer fall on an empty cartridge case), and a well honed warrior mindset often is the deciding factor in which combatant walks away from the encounter and which one doesn't.

[tbrown]

If officers ordered every motorist stopped for very minor vehicle and traffic offenses like this one to keep their hands in sight, there would be a sharp increase in complaints from the public and lots more stops that escalated into verbal and physical confrontations.

On the other hand, not doing so makes it possible for a stopped motorist who exhibits no other warning signs to initiate a surprise firearm attack on an officer.

The same principle holds true when they walk into a restaurant for lunch.

[Excaliber]

If officers ordered every motorist stopped for very minor vehicle and traffic offenses like this one to keep their hands in sight, there would be a sharp increase in complaints from the public and lots more stops that escalated into verbal and physical confrontations.

On the other hand, not doing so makes it possible for a stopped motorist who exhibits no other warning signs to initiate a surprise firearm attack on an officer.

The same principle holds true when they walk into a restaurant for lunch.

In one case, the officer is in contact with a specific violator and is taking direct law enforcement action which some folks have no sense of humor about.

At lunch, he is simply another diner with no more interaction with the folks around him than they have with each other.

I think there might be just a tad of difference there.

[Ericstac]

Did the dead driver hit a transformer at the end? Lol poor neighbors first had gunshots their direction then lost power QUICK, GRAB THE BUG OUT BAG!!

[texanjoker]

If officers ordered every motorist stopped for very minor vehicle and traffic offenses like this one to keep their hands in sight, there would be a sharp increase in complaints from the public and lots more stops that escalated into verbal and physical confrontations.

On the other hand, not doing so makes it possible for a stopped motorist who exhibits no other warning signs to initiate a surprise firearm attack on an officer.

The same principle holds true when they walk into a restaurant for lunch.

In one case, the officer is in contact with a specific violator and is taking direct law enforcement action which some folks have no sense of humor about.

At lunch, he is simply another diner with no more interaction with the folks around him than they have with each other.

I think there might be just a tad of difference there.

One thing that holds true as well, is that nobody will know if they can actually squeeze the trigger at a human until they are faced with that decision.

[Excaliber]

If officers ordered every motorist stopped for very minor vehicle and traffic offenses like this one to keep their hands in sight, there would be a sharp increase in complaints from the public and lots more stops that escalated into verbal and physical confrontations.

On the other hand, not doing so makes it possible for a stopped motorist who exhibits no other warning signs to initiate a surprise firearm attack on an officer.

The same principle holds true when they walk into a restaurant for lunch.

In one case, the officer is in contact with a specific violator and is taking direct law enforcement action which some folks have no sense of humor about.

At lunch, he is simply another diner with no more interaction with the folks around him than they have with each other.

I think there might be just a tad of difference there.

One thing that holds true as well, is that nobody will know if they can actually squeeze the trigger at a human until they are faced with that decision.

True enough.

A follow on on point is that those who wait until the moment of truth to begin thinking about it will probably not fare well in the encounter.

[bayouhazard]

Are police really getting shot over $100 speeding tickets? Because there are cases where police have walked in on robberies in progress in restaurants and convenience stores.

[baldeagle]

I'm not an expert in police tactics, but I didn't see much wrong with what the officer did. He stopped his vehicle to the outside of the driver's vehicle, protecting himself from a sideswipe by an inattentive motorist. He walked up the side of the driver's vehicle while shining his flashlight on the driver, observing his movements. When the driver appeared to be cooperating, he relaxed and moved his flashlight away, pointing it down toward the ground. The driver appeared to be cooperating when suddenly he pulled a .41 magnum revolver on the officer. The officer reacted by pushing the driver's arm away possibly saving his life had the gun fired. He then took evasive action while drawing his weapon, turned and returned fire rapidly, then slower and even slower as the vehicle drove away. He fired 14 times; 7 in rapid succession, then four, then three.

The officer himself found eight things that he did wrong.

He held his flashlight in his gun hand
His positioning in the window was too close
He reacted to Davis’ challenge of the stop
He was aware he couldn’t see the motorist’s right hand
He backed up when he first saw the gun (instead of moving to the rear of the vehicle)
For a millisecond, he believed that Davis was joking
He was told that Davis was a “nice guy”
He approached the motorist thinking, “It’s just a DUI”

[Excaliber]

Are police really getting shot over $100 speeding tickets? Because there are cases where police have walked in on robberies in progress in restaurants and convenience stores.

The short answer is Yes.

The long answer is that they are getting shot during stops that, as far as the officer knows, involve only a $100 speeding ticket. Unles a tag check brings up a warning, until he walks up to the car, he doesn't know if the driver is Joe Average who made a minor driving error, or drunk, on meth, just committed a homicide, or is wanted for serial killings in 6 states. There's also the complication of the passengers, whose backgrounds may be much different than the driver's.

Those who have done this have a true understanding of just how literal the term "pucker factor" is.

[texanjoker]

Are police really getting shot over $100 speeding tickets? Because there are cases where police have walked in on robberies in progress in restaurants and convenience stores.

The thing is you don't always know when you make a stop. I had a dude try and shoot me at the window of a car. I was in a better position and moved back hugging the car. The gun didn't fire when he squeezed the trigger. The guy then stuck the gun in his own mouth and squeezed again. Still didn't fire. I can't believe how close to a car you can get behind the driver's door. He tried to cycle the gun, but it was a 22 or 25 cal beretta 22a? and it wouldn't cycle. After a brief stand off with him trying to work the gun, me backing up to my car, and lots of cover arriving, I got him to surrender. I couldn't shoot as there was a car IFO him that was occupied. The round had 2 hammer marks on it. Turned out he was wanted for questioning in a murder investigation in another city, was felon, had a gun, was high on meth and had 1/4 oz of meth on him. I wish I could have kept that bullet as a reminder, but it was evidence.

[Excaliber]

Are police really getting shot over $100 speeding tickets? Because there are cases where police have walked in on robberies in progress in restaurants and convenience stores.

The thing is you don't always know when you make a stop. I had a dude try and shoot me at the window of a car. I was in a better position and moved back hugging the car. The gun didn't fire when he squeezed the trigger. The guy then stuck the gun in his own mouth and squeezed again. Still didn't fire. I can't believe how close to a car you can get behind the driver's door. He tried to cycle the gun, but it was a 22 or 25 cal beretta 22a? and it wouldn't cycle. After a brief stand off with him trying to work the gun, me backing up to my car, and lots of cover arriving, I got him to surrender. I couldn't shoot as there was a car IFO him that was occupied. The round had 2 hammer marks on it. Turned out he was wanted for questioning in a murder investigation in another city, was felon, had a gun, was high on meth and had 1/4 oz of meth on him. I wish I could have kept that bullet as a reminder, but it was evidence.

That qualifies as a real close call.

Good tactics.

If one stays real close to the car as you did, it's very hard for the driver to shoot you....

unless he opens the door.

The worst case is when the driver opens the door and begins firing when you're about even with the rear door.

Then moving rapidly away and forward while drawing and firing is the best counter.

[Abraham]

LEO's aren't paid enough...

The close call stories make me want to shake all your hands and wish you all the best.