Holy cow, what's happening in LA CA

[bizarrenormality]

Did any of the LAPD clean up team work for the FBI twenty years ago?

[longtooth]

Great post VMI77. I grow weary of those who act as if LE can do no wrong. The LAPD has a lot to answer for. Hopefully it doesn't all get swept under the rug.
As for the compliant media...maybe they didn't want their vehicles to get all shot up with them inside.

Be clear I am not saying LAPD did no wrong on the shootings of innocents. I have never said they did not wrong. Let the facts come out and if they just shot people for no reason they will be unemployed if not prosecuted. However people keep mingling the incidents and those are NOT this incident. I am ONLY speaking about the Big Bear incident and events there.

THIS incident is different and the suspect sealed his fate when he failed to surrender and kept engaging LEO's during the ongoing fire fight, killing one, and wounding another. Suspects that shoot cops surrender all the time w/o being shot. From all accounts and his actions he didn't want that. Late last year my former partner was critically wounded, taken hostage and a 2nd officer was shot. During the 15 minute gun fight the suspect was hit. The suspect then wanted to surrender, and knowing 2 officers were shot, they still allowed him to surrender as that was the right thing to do. That happens all the time - crooks decide to give up and are taken into custody. This guy did not want that.

I have a real hard time with all the Monday night quarterbacking when the facts of the fire are not even out and as the incident unfolded live people are jumping to conclusions. Just like all the rest of the population the LEO's are innocent until proven guilty. From the latest report the swat team was tearing the walls down room by room. When they reached the room he was in it sounds like he might have shot himself and the fire started. On a side note that also does not sound like they just burned him out. If they were going to do that, why would they risk going room to room on the swat action? I am curious to see if he set the fire to try and take one last LEO with him to heck.

Everything you're saying here may be true, but it really doesn't address the issue of concern. You said that even if they intentionally burned him out you are ok with that. It's that intentionality that is my focus. The same rationale you use to justify burning him out would justify a bomb, an air strike, or a drone strike. LE was recorded making statements that suggest they intentionally burned him out. That's a fact. So what we have is LE making claims that they did such and such and an actual recording that suggests they did something else. Self-serving claims don't invalidate actual recorded statements. This action followed a skeptical public widely expressing the belief that LE was going to kill Dorner no matter what. So, do they act in a way that will invalidate this suspicion? No, they get him contained, they attempt to make sure there are no witnesses, then burn the guy alive, and unless they had information to the contrary that hasn't been released to the public, they did it without even knowing if there was anyone else in the building.

You keep saying it's a different LE agency than LAPD. For this to be truly meaningful you also have to contend that there is no way the Sheriff of San Bernardino County, or someone high up in his COC, is going to do a favor for the Chief of the LAPD or the Mayor of Los Angeles, or some other self-interested politician --even when the favor is something that County LE might already want to do anyway in revenge for killing one of their own guys? Nothing I've seen gives me that much faith in the system.

This incident did not involve airstrikes, drones, ect so that is a "what if" and not part of this incident. I'll leave those discussions for Alex Jones.

Does this quote look familiar?

texanjoker wrote:


SWAT teams work off secure channels and only certain people will have access to that channel even within the agency. Routine patrol will still be yacking away.

I am hoping the 2 latest wounded officers are ok.

Time to call in an air strike!

I have seen many posts of yours on various threads directed at me in a negative manner. That is fine. I normally don't respond as I look at the source . However, if you can't figure out when one is joking about an air strike I have to . Last I checked, LEO's DO NOT have the capability to call in an air strike and if you are taking that literally

Oh trust me, I don't take you seriously. I do think it is very sad though that one would "joke" about air strikes when LEOs have just been killed. Guess that speaks to character.

I am in late so this has been on the board a while.
Gentlemen lets get this back on the subject & not personal.
Also watch the abreviations please.
LT

[talltex]

My opinion; a maniac who murdered innocent people (including law enforcement personnel) is dead. Period. I personally don't consider him a human being, just a rabid animal. How it was done doesn't matter; just take out the trash without getting anyone else hurt/killed and move on..
Hats off to California law enforcement
Dave

REALLY? Seems you're overlooking the part where California law enforcement (LAPD) recklessly, without identifying the target, opened fire on innocent citizens in their zeal to shoot Dorner. Those officers were not trying to WARN the occupants of the vehicles they riddled with bullets...they were trying their best to kill them. Luckily they ONLY wounded two women, and shot up two trucks...neither of which matched the description of the truck they were looking for. Dorner may have got what he deserved...those innocent people certainly did not.

[TexasFlash]

Not overlooking LAPD incidents; was addressing the end game in Big Bear. Guess I should have elaborated, ad nauseum, like so many do when it comes to LEO incidents; MY BAD. I'm sure the LEOS who messed up in LA will be appropriately skewered by the powers that be. I wasn't there, so have no clue what took place; only know what I see from my recliner. Those of you who were there can keep me up to speed.

Dave

[VMI77]

Not overlooking LAPD incidents; was addressing the end game in Big Bear. Guess I should have elaborated, ad nauseum, like so many do when it comes to LEO incidents; MY BAD. I'm sure the LEOS who messed up in LA will be appropriately skewered by the powers that be. I wasn't there, so have no clue what took place; only know what I see from my recliner. Those of you who were there can keep me up to speed.

Dave

Well, based on that logic, might as well not discuss anything, since it's gonna really be rare that any of us will be physically present at any of the incidents discussed on this board. Then again, you are expressing your opinion without being there, so I guess what you're really saying is that anyone with a viewpoint different than yours is just wrong. Why the pretense of being objective, just come out and say it: you're right, anyone who disagrees with you is wrong?

[VMI77]

This incident did not involve airstrikes, drones, ect so that is a "what if" and not part of this incident. I'll leave those discussions for Alex Jones.

Do I believe they were doing favors? Sorry but I don't buy that. This was real life and not a TV show. Their only objective would be to get through the incident without loosing any more LEO or civilians to a crazed madman bent on war.

How insulting of you. You seem confused about what I wrote....I didn't offer any hypothetical. I only addressed the principles involved as they relate to due process. The principle you're espousing --that it's ok to kill suspects by deliberately burning down the building they are in-- also justifies other methods of extra-judicial killing.

Furthermore, I didn't say anyone did a favor for anyone, I merely challenged your very naive contention that such a thing just couldn't happen. And btw, I haven't watched television for over 20 years now, as I'm not interested in advertising and liberal propaganda, so I'll gladly concede that your knowledge of what's on television is vastly more comprehensive and superior to mine.

[Keith B]

OK, you have been warned. Topic locked.