Check the chaimber!
Moderators: carlson1, Keith B, Charles L. Cotton
-
Topic author - Member
- Posts in topic: 3
- Posts: 48
- Joined: Mon Mar 22, 2010 10:15 am
Check the chaimber!
Just realized that i've been carrying an empty chamber every day for the last...who knows how many weeks/months...
Full mag, nothing in the pipe. Ammo is precious these days so I haven't been to the range in awhile, no reason to clean it. Check for rust every now & then, but with this one it's usually belt > console(work) > belt > nightstand. Went to check something the other day and had an O...M...G moment.
I'm always methodical about unloading / unchambering /checking before doing anything, then load / chamber / decock. Not sure what went wrong this time. I think I had some friends over with kids so I put it up and unchambered both nighstand guns. That was months ago, haha.
Lesson learned. Check those chambers everyday gentlemen.
Full mag, nothing in the pipe. Ammo is precious these days so I haven't been to the range in awhile, no reason to clean it. Check for rust every now & then, but with this one it's usually belt > console(work) > belt > nightstand. Went to check something the other day and had an O...M...G moment.
I'm always methodical about unloading / unchambering /checking before doing anything, then load / chamber / decock. Not sure what went wrong this time. I think I had some friends over with kids so I put it up and unchambered both nighstand guns. That was months ago, haha.
Lesson learned. Check those chambers everyday gentlemen.
Re: Check the chaimber!
When nanoseconds count, it'll only take a minute to chamber a round.
I'm no lawyer
"Never show your hole card" "Always have something in reserve"
"Never show your hole card" "Always have something in reserve"
-
- Senior Member
- Posts in topic: 1
- Posts: 521
- Joined: Sun May 16, 2010 6:56 am
- Location: League City
- Contact:
Re: Check the chaimber!
jiggerachi wrote:Just realized that i've been carrying an empty chamber every day for the last...who knows how many weeks/months...
Full mag, nothing in the pipe. Ammo is precious these days so I haven't been to the range in awhile, no reason to clean it. Check for rust every now & then, but with this one it's usually belt > console(work) > belt > nightstand. Went to check something the other day and had an O...M...G moment.
I'm always methodical about unloading / unchambering /checking before doing anything, then load / chamber / decock. Not sure what went wrong this time. I think I had some friends over with kids so I put it up and unchambered both nighstand guns. That was months ago, haha.
Lesson learned. Check those chambers everyday gentlemen.
Dry fire practice..?
Lock box..?
In the endless pursuit of perfection, we may achieve excellence.
Texas LTC and School Safety Instructor and NRA Training Counselor
Texas LTC and School Safety Instructor and NRA Training Counselor
-
- Junior Member
- Posts in topic: 1
- Posts: 23
- Joined: Sat Feb 17, 2007 10:39 pm
- Location: Humble
Re: Check the chaimber!
Though its no substitute for a visual check I still love the "chambered round" indicator on my XD and Kahr.
jiggerachi wrote:Just realized that i've been carrying an empty chamber every day for the last...who knows how many weeks/months...
Full mag, nothing in the pipe. Ammo is precious these days so I haven't been to the range in awhile, no reason to clean it. Check for rust every now & then, but with this one it's usually belt > console(work) > belt > nightstand. Went to check something the other day and had an O...M...G moment.
I'm always methodical about unloading / unchambering /checking before doing anything, then load / chamber / decock. Not sure what went wrong this time. I think I had some friends over with kids so I put it up and unchambered both nighstand guns. That was months ago, haha.
Lesson learned. Check those chambers everyday gentlemen.
Ready! Fire! Aim!
-
- Senior Member
- Posts in topic: 1
- Posts: 4899
- Joined: Thu Dec 23, 2004 6:10 pm
- Location: Vidor, Tx
- Contact:
Re: Check the chaimber!
Do a press check whenever you put your gun on if it's been out of your hands or holster for any reason. A press check only takes a second, chambering a round in a gunfight may take the rest of your life.
"To disarm the people is the best and most effectual way to enslave them."
George Mason
Texas and Louisiana CHL Instructor, NRA Pistol, Rifle, Shotgun, Personal Protection and Refuse To Be A Victim Instructor
George Mason
Texas and Louisiana CHL Instructor, NRA Pistol, Rifle, Shotgun, Personal Protection and Refuse To Be A Victim Instructor
-
- Senior Member
- Posts in topic: 1
- Posts: 881
- Joined: Sun Feb 27, 2011 11:20 pm
- Location: Katy-ish
Re: Check the chaimber!
I did a press check just last week, knowing full well I'd see the shiny silver case of the Golden Saber. It wasn't there.
I have always (knock on wood) had great success with safety behaving as if every gun were loaded. It is a subtle shift in the defensive mindset to actually make sure that the ones you intend to be, are.
A good share, thank you!
I have always (knock on wood) had great success with safety behaving as if every gun were loaded. It is a subtle shift in the defensive mindset to actually make sure that the ones you intend to be, are.
A good share, thank you!
NRA Endowment - NRA RSO - Μολὼν λάβε
-
- Senior Member
- Posts in topic: 2
- Posts: 812
- Joined: Mon Feb 09, 2009 12:48 pm
- Location: NW Houston, TX
- Contact:
Re: Check the chaimber!
Along those lines . . . (trying NOT to get on one of my soapboxes)
I found out the hard way (at a match) that the way we handle our guns on a day-to-day basis becomes routine, and under stress that we will revert to our training (or learning). In short, I was in the habit of removing my pistol at bedtime, against the safe-direction declared in the bedroom, and setting it in its designated "night spot," followed by simply removing my spare magazines and laying them beside the gun. Morning routine was to verify the condition of the pistol and slip it in my holster, followed by placing spare mags on my belt. All of this happened at more-or-less waist or chest level.
I found that under the artificial stress of a match, my magazine draw for reloads had me pulling the mag from the pouch and going to chest level with them, then making the conscious decision to put it in the gun. My pistol draw in the same conditions had me pulling the gun from the holster, "connecting" (my other hand) at waist level, and then making the conscious decision to bring it to eye level and "use" it.
Why? Simple. I arm and disarm 7 times (or more) per week, and at least once each per day. I draw and fire maybe 3-4 sets of repetitions per month under the structure of a match. Which do you think became more ingrained in my "muscle memory?" Obviously my administrative methods more than my live-fire methods.
I was shooting an IDPA match, and one of the world-class masters showed up and as usual, I observed a couple of characteristics that separate the masters from the marksmen, and I started asking him some questions. To summarize the conversation, he told me that when he draws a pistol for ANY reason, it comes out of the holster, and goes up for action; he THEN makes a decision whether to fire or not. Same for magazines. When he comes off the belt with a magazine, it's going to the gun as quickly as possible, and stopping JUST before insertion -- the decision then is to line up and slam it home, or to "stand down". The point is that the muscle memory of "filling his hand" is the same whether he's just putting the gun on/taking it off, or getting down to business.
My morning routine now includes holstering, drawing, gaining a sight picture, swapping magazines, press-checking, and reholstering -- all as though I'm about to fire a round (finger clear of the trigger, muzzle in a designated safe direction). My nightly unload routine includes a full draw and present, complete with sight picture. With the gun still in my dominant hand, each magazine on my belt comes out, and goes to the gun (often a tactical reload, just because), followed by a final and distinct final 'resolution" (i.e. put it in its designated night spot). When that's done, the gun gets a press-check to confirm chamber & magazine condition (always verify every time I handle it).
Why did I change all this? Because I once discovered that I was carrying a cocked & locked 1911 with nothing in the chamber. The upshot is that I'm even MORE in the habit of checking the chamber of every gun that I encounter (always treated every gun as though it is loaded; now I verify for myself each and every time), and that my changes in the way I handle the administrative details of daily carry has shaved easily a 1/2 second off of both my reloads and draw & fire on the clock. Sure enough, we do fight like we train, so we should train like we're going to fight. We all handle our guns more often in administrative mode than in "for real" mode;
So if you ever see some of us at "playtime" (Matches, etc.) going through what look like silly and elaborate routines just prior to shooting a standard 6-shot timed drill, at least in my case it's for consistency.
A good share, by the way. I suspect we've all been there, or will go there at some point.
I found out the hard way (at a match) that the way we handle our guns on a day-to-day basis becomes routine, and under stress that we will revert to our training (or learning). In short, I was in the habit of removing my pistol at bedtime, against the safe-direction declared in the bedroom, and setting it in its designated "night spot," followed by simply removing my spare magazines and laying them beside the gun. Morning routine was to verify the condition of the pistol and slip it in my holster, followed by placing spare mags on my belt. All of this happened at more-or-less waist or chest level.
I found that under the artificial stress of a match, my magazine draw for reloads had me pulling the mag from the pouch and going to chest level with them, then making the conscious decision to put it in the gun. My pistol draw in the same conditions had me pulling the gun from the holster, "connecting" (my other hand) at waist level, and then making the conscious decision to bring it to eye level and "use" it.
Why? Simple. I arm and disarm 7 times (or more) per week, and at least once each per day. I draw and fire maybe 3-4 sets of repetitions per month under the structure of a match. Which do you think became more ingrained in my "muscle memory?" Obviously my administrative methods more than my live-fire methods.
I was shooting an IDPA match, and one of the world-class masters showed up and as usual, I observed a couple of characteristics that separate the masters from the marksmen, and I started asking him some questions. To summarize the conversation, he told me that when he draws a pistol for ANY reason, it comes out of the holster, and goes up for action; he THEN makes a decision whether to fire or not. Same for magazines. When he comes off the belt with a magazine, it's going to the gun as quickly as possible, and stopping JUST before insertion -- the decision then is to line up and slam it home, or to "stand down". The point is that the muscle memory of "filling his hand" is the same whether he's just putting the gun on/taking it off, or getting down to business.
My morning routine now includes holstering, drawing, gaining a sight picture, swapping magazines, press-checking, and reholstering -- all as though I'm about to fire a round (finger clear of the trigger, muzzle in a designated safe direction). My nightly unload routine includes a full draw and present, complete with sight picture. With the gun still in my dominant hand, each magazine on my belt comes out, and goes to the gun (often a tactical reload, just because), followed by a final and distinct final 'resolution" (i.e. put it in its designated night spot). When that's done, the gun gets a press-check to confirm chamber & magazine condition (always verify every time I handle it).
Why did I change all this? Because I once discovered that I was carrying a cocked & locked 1911 with nothing in the chamber. The upshot is that I'm even MORE in the habit of checking the chamber of every gun that I encounter (always treated every gun as though it is loaded; now I verify for myself each and every time), and that my changes in the way I handle the administrative details of daily carry has shaved easily a 1/2 second off of both my reloads and draw & fire on the clock. Sure enough, we do fight like we train, so we should train like we're going to fight. We all handle our guns more often in administrative mode than in "for real" mode;
So if you ever see some of us at "playtime" (Matches, etc.) going through what look like silly and elaborate routines just prior to shooting a standard 6-shot timed drill, at least in my case it's for consistency.
A good share, by the way. I suspect we've all been there, or will go there at some point.
American by birth, Texan by the grace of God!
-
- Senior Member
- Posts in topic: 2
- Posts: 5488
- Joined: Wed Aug 25, 2010 9:13 am
- Location: Klein, TX (Houston NW suburb)
Re: Check the chaimber!
Chris, why in the world would you unload and reload on a daily basis? That is more dangerous, in my opinion, than simply leaving it loaded. First, it is unnecessary gun handling. Second, you may need it to defend yourself during a home invasion. Third and most important, the frequent load/unload cycles risk bullet setback and a gun KABOOM.My morning routine now includes holstering, drawing, gaining a sight picture, swapping magazines, press-checking, and reholstering -- all as though I'm about to fire a round (finger clear of the trigger, muzzle in a designated safe direction). My nightly unload routine includes a full draw and present, complete with sight picture. With the gun still in my dominant hand, each magazine on my belt comes out, and goes to the gun (often a tactical reload, just because), followed by a final and distinct final 'resolution" (i.e. put it in its designated night spot). When that's done, the gun gets a press-check to confirm chamber & magazine condition (always verify every time I handle it).
On a different note, I agree with your muscle memory observations. I just don't like daily loading/unloading.
-Just call me Bob . . . Texas Firearms Coalition, NRA Life member, TSRA Life member, and OFCC Patron member
This froggie ain't boiling! Shall not be infringed! Μολών Λαβέ
This froggie ain't boiling! Shall not be infringed! Μολών Λαβέ
-
- Senior Member
- Posts in topic: 1
- Posts: 7786
- Joined: Thu Jul 23, 2009 2:23 pm
- Location: Near San Jacinto
Re: Check the chaimber!
I check the chambered round indicator even though I know there is one in the pipe.
KAHR PM40/Hoffner IWB and S&W Mod 60/ Galco IWB
NRA Endowment Member, TSRA Life Member,100 Club Life Member,TFC Member
My Faith, My Gun and My Constitution: I cling to all three!
NRA Endowment Member, TSRA Life Member,100 Club Life Member,TFC Member
My Faith, My Gun and My Constitution: I cling to all three!
-
- Senior Member
- Posts in topic: 2
- Posts: 812
- Joined: Mon Feb 09, 2009 12:48 pm
- Location: NW Houston, TX
- Contact:
Re: Check the chaimber!
Bob, I just rotate through the mags, as in a tac-load (both for practice, and to check that each mag seats correctly, every time). I don't actually pop a round in and out of the chamber . . . I do, however, press check it. I'm "always live" in that context, especially with a 1911 and it's notorious nature for bullet setback. Thank you for bringing that up -- I don't think I was as clear as I intended.Jumping Frog wrote: Chris, why in the world would you unload and reload on a daily basis? That is more dangerous, in my opinion, than simply leaving it loaded. First, it is unnecessary gun handling. Second, you may need it to defend yourself during a home invasion. Third and most important, the frequent load/unload cycles risk bullet setback and a gun KABOOM.
On a different note, I agree with your muscle memory observations. I just don't like daily loading/unloading.
American by birth, Texan by the grace of God!
-
Topic author - Member
- Posts in topic: 3
- Posts: 48
- Joined: Mon Mar 22, 2010 10:15 am
Re: Check the chaimber!
Yea it's a bersa .380cc with the loaded inticator. I've trained myself to ignore it and check for shiny brass, just hadn't had it out of the holster in awhile. I do draw & drifire frequently but I started a new job and radically switched up my schedule so i've had other things on my mind the last few months. Ironically this same schedule that puts me through Irving and into downtown at midnight....with an empty chaimber <forehead smack>
One thing I love about my CZ P07, you can just tilt the gun and see a gleam of brass sitting in the chaimber, no slide check needed, no indicator needed, but it's not near as easy to carry as the bersa CC.
Yep I've learned to look for brass everytime now. It's an embarrassing lesson but i'm glad I learned it.
One thing I love about my CZ P07, you can just tilt the gun and see a gleam of brass sitting in the chaimber, no slide check needed, no indicator needed, but it's not near as easy to carry as the bersa CC.
Yep I've learned to look for brass everytime now. It's an embarrassing lesson but i'm glad I learned it.
-
Topic author - Member
- Posts in topic: 3
- Posts: 48
- Joined: Mon Mar 22, 2010 10:15 am
Re: Check the chaimber!
Have a nice big safe, no lockbox needed, but like to keep at least one somewhat accessible, just not to kids.thatguy wrote: Dry fire practice..?
Lock box..?
Re: Check the chaimber!
It happened to me once.
I was astonished.
Since, I check regularly and it's never happened again.
I was astonished.
Since, I check regularly and it's never happened again.
-
- Senior Member
- Posts in topic: 2
- Posts: 5488
- Joined: Wed Aug 25, 2010 9:13 am
- Location: Klein, TX (Houston NW suburb)
Re: Check the chaimber!
That makes good sense to me. Thanks for explaining.cbunt1 wrote: Bob, I just rotate through the mags, as in a tac-load (both for practice, and to check that each mag seats correctly, every time). I don't actually pop a round in and out of the chamber . . .
-Just call me Bob . . . Texas Firearms Coalition, NRA Life member, TSRA Life member, and OFCC Patron member
This froggie ain't boiling! Shall not be infringed! Μολών Λαβέ
This froggie ain't boiling! Shall not be infringed! Μολών Λαβέ
-
- Senior Member
- Posts in topic: 1
- Posts: 2315
- Joined: Tue Sep 04, 2007 2:02 pm
- Contact:
Re: Check the chaimber!
My wife has cocked an eyebrow at me for doing a pipe check before I holster or when I check the cylinder should I be putting on the Model 36. BUT, she looks at me odd for a number of things, daily, so I'm used to it.
OT, Anyone watch Hawaii Five-O. I was tickled to see McGarrett do a pipe check once and they never rack a slide before engaging. You set aside that someone is shot every week and rounds from a rifle hitting composite helicopter skin and throwing sparks...you have a pretty good show.
OT, Anyone watch Hawaii Five-O. I was tickled to see McGarrett do a pipe check once and they never rack a slide before engaging. You set aside that someone is shot every week and rounds from a rifle hitting composite helicopter skin and throwing sparks...you have a pretty good show.
I Thess 5:21
Disclaimer: IANAL, IANYL, IDNPOOTV, IDNSIAHIE and IANROFL
"There is no situation so bad that you can't make it worse." - Chris Hadfield, NASA ISS Astronaut
Disclaimer: IANAL, IANYL, IDNPOOTV, IDNSIAHIE and IANROFL
"There is no situation so bad that you can't make it worse." - Chris Hadfield, NASA ISS Astronaut